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RR
09-15-2003, 10:10 AM
Did anyone catch the article in the Boston Globe yesterday about the track being built in NH? My neighbor told me there was quite an in-depth article about some guy who is building a true road course for cars, he's sick of hauling to Lime Rock. Anyone have more info????

RSTPerformance
09-15-2003, 10:26 AM
I belive that it is a "member only" track where you purchase memberships to run the track... memberships are in the $5,000-$30,000 price range, depending on status. This is about what I know, lots of freinds have gone to check out the place, it is already under construction. Somone else can probably add more. Dave Patten I think got a membership so he may know more bout the facility. Not sure if he posts here but I am sure you could talk to him at one of the races.

Raymond "ya I wish I could afford that" Blethen

Lucca Sport
09-15-2003, 10:44 AM
Car hobbyists making tracks
New Hampshire club is planned
By Meg Villeneuve, Globe Correspondent, 9/14/2003


Dan Croteau loves to get his BMW M3 lightweight to 115 miles an hour or more, but he knows he can't do that on the highway. So the car enthusiast and lifelong resident of Salem, N.H., often drives his modified German-engineered automobile onto a trailer and heads south to the road courses in Lyme Rock, Conn., or Watkins Glen, N.Y.

But for the past two years, Croteau said, getting track time has been more difficult. ''Even when I get the time, I have to make the appointment months in advance,'' he said. For 30 minutes of track time, Croteau spends on average three to four hours driving one way.

His solution is to bring a bit of NASCAR to central New Hampshire.

With the creation of Club Motorsports Inc., Croteau, the club's founder, principal investor, and director of sales and marketing, hopes that he and many other car enthusiasts will no longer have to wait for track time. The private country club will soon begin construction of a 3.3-mile road course in Tamworth, N.H., and expects to draw car enthusiasts from around New England, especially the metro Boston area.

Croteau says it's not all about speed. The club will also offer training sessions to people who want to test their cars' handling capacity. Someone may commute with a BMW, but can't hit the gas and let it ride because of the speed limits. At Club Motorsports, drivers will be able to do just that, without the threat of flashing blue lights.

The track will also hold ''gentlemen's competitions,'' which will allow drivers to compete against another, minus the bumping and tapping of NASCAR. ''I saw a great deal of demand from drivers around the Boston area and New Hampshire who wanted a road course nearby, but couldn't find one,'' Croteau said.

The facility will be located about a two hour drive from Boston, and minutes from Lake Winnipesaukee and North Conway. ''We chose this location for its demographics. It's a good resort location and there is lots for family members to do,'' said Croteau.

For people looking for a place to run their car, their options are limited to a handful of sites in New England and around Montreal. Unlike other courses, Club Motorsports plans to operate more like a country club than a racetrack.

Phase one of construction, which is expected to begin next month, includes the road course, as well as garages, a locker room, a pro shop, and a food kiosk. Croteau hopes to have the track open about a year from now. Long-term plans include a clubhouse, a pool, and sleeping areas.

In the last month, Croteau and his associates began promoting memberships to their clubhouse-road course and, to date, have sold 40 memberships. The club's owners hope to get at least 1,500 members and see the typical member as someone who joins a country club to take advantage of all the amenities. There are no car requirements to join this club. However, all members will be evaluated on their driving skills before going on the track.

One of the memberships belongs to Newbury resident Mike Morris, who bought his wife a membership as well. The two enjoy racing and travel to Connecticut and Mont Tremblant, west of Montreal, to enjoy the sport. However, once Tamworth opens, the two won't have to drive as far.

''The road course won't be like your typical racetrack, the course will have significant corners and hills,'' Morris said.

The road course, as Croteau prefers to call it, will be a 40-foot-wide course with 21 turns and a 300-foot elevation change.

''With all the curves and elevation changes, this track is similar to the natural motion that a car was made to handle. It's a mentally challenging track,'' Croteau said.

Drivers will go between 40 and 100 miles per hour, depending on which part of the course they are on. At any given time, there won't be more than a handful of drivers on the course, Croteau said. While track owners hope no one crashes, they know accidents will happen and plan to employ their own rescue team.

The facility is selling three levels of memberships, which determine how many times the member can use the track each year, without having to pay extra. The gold level has a $25,000 initiation fee, with the first 50 members paying $15,000. The silver membership level costs $15,000, with the first 50 paying $10,000. Bronze memberships have a $5,000 initiation fee, with the first 50 people paying $2,500.

New Hampshire resident Patrick Kelly said he bought a gold membership for $15,000, which does not include monthly dues of $150. This level of membership allows him 40 road course sessions annually at peak times, and 40 off-peak sessions. Sessions do not exceed 30 minutes.

Kelly said he has been involved with car racing and high-speed driving since he graduated from college. The engineer owns a Mazda Miata and a 944 Porsche Turbo. ''I've been on many of the tracks in New England, and what attracted me to this track was the design. What they have planned appears to be a premier track,'' Kelly said.

Both Kelly and Morris have concerns that plans to build the $14 million facility may fall through. ''I am concerned that they will not be able to pull this off and before I bought my membership, I spent a lot of time talking to the investors,'' Kelly said.

Kelly felt better knowing that Club Motorsports had already purchased the 250-acre parcel in Tamworth and that the group had received site approval from the town.

Croteau admitted there have been a number of false starts, which has created some skepticism. But he said the group is well under way now that it has purchased the land, completed the design and engineering of the track, and received town approval.

The cost of constructing the road course is being funded by private investors and should be operating by next summer, according to Croteau. Construction of the clubhouse, which will be paid for with membership dues, is expected to start in the fall of 2004.

RR
09-15-2003, 11:22 AM
So will this track be an option for SCCA racing? Has anyone contacted the owner. We've been trying to build a track for years, and this guy seems to have stolen our thunder.

nlevine
09-15-2003, 12:57 PM
I met these guys at a BMW CCA drivers school the day before Cheap Date. Looks like a nice facility - multi-configuration road course, clubhouse, garages, skid-pad area... Not sure how they got the site and funding together.

I asked about track rental - I was told that the priority for track time is for their members, but since the track can be split in two, it's possible to run two simultaneous events, so they may consider renting it out to local clubs.

-noam

dickita15
09-15-2003, 01:48 PM
Ner is following this closely. we have met with principals. They would like us to rent the track. If they build it we will probably rent it. They still have many hurdles to cross.
dick

almracing
09-15-2003, 07:05 PM
I wondered when the "flat-landers" would hear about this new track. I just moved up to the North country and this track topic is causing quite a stir.
The town is struggling with keeping the track out, and not imposing new zoning laws. It has been interesting to follow the story... since the zoning issue is creating the debate, not necessarily the track itself. Lots of people do not want to be told what they can and cannot do with their property. (Live free or die)
The latest argument is over noise and noise abatement. Tests were done to measure the road traffic and make estimates on the noise the track will make. (They should have made the measurements during Bike Week - :-))
Like with many new projects, there are plenty of nay-sayers. So it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

If you want to keep up with the local track news check out www.mountwashingtonvalley.com (http://www.mountwashingtonvalley.com). This is the local paper and it is following the story closely. Plenty of letters to the editor about the track too.

As for me, I am waiting to see how things pan out before mailing any checks.

Anthony R.
ITA #86 NER

pgipson
09-15-2003, 09:14 PM
I hope these guys talk to the folks that built Arizona Motorsports Park. Especially before they go to any public hearings.

lateapex911
09-15-2003, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by nlevine:
together.

I asked about track rental - I was told that the priority for track time is for their members, but since the track can be split in two, it's possible to run two simultaneous events, so they may consider renting it out to local clubs.

-noam

Well, I haven't seen the business plan, but quick number crunching tells me that they will indeed want to rent it out!

I am interested as to their approvals from the town, county, and state, and EPA and so on. Will they get approval for unmuffled? Or will we see a dB limit? 95?

From the description, it sounds like a wild track! 300 feet of elevation?? That's about 30 stories! Wow! 3.3 miles?? Cool!

If they build it, I hope we can run....



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

lateapex911
09-16-2003, 01:17 AM
Further research reveals...

Alan Wilson (Desiree's husband) has been cited as the course designer. His site calls the site "under development".

> the town has no zoning. An emergency zoning meeting is to be held in 2 weeks. (town residents have rejected this in several votes in the past)

> the track property sits on forest that hasn't been disturbed since an 1874 forest fire.

> It also sits on the states largest aquifier.

> the local indian tribe has announced their objections and are moving to block the project.

> it appears that the subject has created more townspeole involment and commentary than is usually seen. The recent committee meeting was standing room only and many were turned away. The general townspeoples opinion appears negative, but perhaps they are a vocal minority.

> The town committee approved a noise ordinance and hours of operation ordinance. After several votes, they approved a dB limit of 69 Mon -Sat, and 64 on Sunday. Measured at the property line. Currently the "facility" will be 800 feet from the property line. Approved hours of operation will be 8-6 M-S, 12 -6 on Sunday. There was a move to not allow activity on Sundays, or holidays. (As a comparison, the measured noise 50 feet from Rt 25 [where the track is located] was 85dB.)

> The town is also concerned with appearance issues, although it was pointed out that RT 25, has a lumberyard and the town transfer station nearby.


That said, I wonder what legal ramifications will or could arise if the town enacts zoning regulations prohibiting or severly restricting the clubs operations, after the project starts?

As they say, it aint over 'til it's over.




------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

zracer22
09-16-2003, 09:34 AM
Race Club Memberships, for the most part, are a failure. This is exactly like we heard at the announcement of Beaverun Motorsports Complex 1-2 years before construction started. Yes, Beaverun exists, but barely. Only 1.5 of the proposed 4 miles of track are built, below average facilities. All in all, a good place to go race, but much less than advertised 3-4 years ago. There's no membership, no Club House, no etc....

Even if theey do build it, don't count on the SCCA using it. So far, the SCCA events at Beaverun have been few and far between and not very successful. I can't imagine any region giving up there track dates at the Glen or Limerock, so they would be adding to an already full schedule of events which just means we will have more under attended events. Just look at what's happening at Beaverun....

tac911t
09-16-2003, 12:06 PM
VIR in southern Virginia has certainly been successful since they opened in 2000. Having a real estate developer with a racing background certainly helped, along with having the track exsting in the past (zoning issues). With the downturn of the economy, VIR provides local jobs and construction projects. They are building a vintage car showroom, adding connection roads to the North and South course connection roads, and Condo's are in the future. The additonal connection roads will provide VIR with the longest Road Course, and allow the full course to be run while the inner course of connection roads is used.

VIR is a club, with members paying dues for VIP privileges (admission to spectator events and track days). Over the past several years I have noticed that the number of track days has decreased, but VIR was not built to be a members only track.

Racing is not golf, a track cannot survive on members alone, unless those members have very deep pockets.

Todd

Jake
09-16-2003, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by zracer22:
Even if theey do build it, don't count on the SCCA using it. So far, the SCCA events at Beaverun have been few and far between and not very successful. I can't imagine any region giving up there track dates at the Glen or Limerock, so they would be adding to an already full schedule of events which just means we will have more under attended events. Just look at what's happening at Beaverun....

Maybe so, but EMRA and NASA would love to put on more races in New England.

zracer22
09-16-2003, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Jake:
Maybe so, but EMRA and NASA would love to put on more races in New England.



And that's exactly what's happened at Beaverun. NASA has been to Beaverun 3 times this year, and will be there again on Sept 27-28 for sprint races and a 3 hour enduro.

stevel
09-19-2003, 10:53 AM
www.clubmotorsports.com (http://www.clubmotorsports.com)

if it all actually gets built it will be cool. I am very pessimistic myself. Not a big deal for me. LRP is the same distance and NHIS is much closer.

The rental fees seem very high and as of now they don't want to rent out the entire track at once, only 1 config at a time. I guess so the members are never eeked out of track time. Doesn't seem very economical as a member. I'd rather just do HPDE's.

s

09-22-2003, 01:55 PM
As one of the founders and the Director of Sales and Marketing for Clubmotorsports I thought it might be helpful if I provided some details on the subject. Clubmotorsports Inc was formed over a year ago and has secured through private investments the capital needed to build the course in all 3+ miles in Tamwoth NH.
It is a true roadcourse designed by Alan Wilson. We have been working with "The race track ordinence committe" made up of selectmen from the town of Tamwoth and are expecting to receive our operating permit shortly. We plan on breaking ground the week of Oct 13th and are planning to have the roadcourse open mid-late July next year.
The facility will mainly serve the membership but will also be rented to various clubs. It is financially viable and profitable to operate the facility as a members only facility, as a members facility with rental suplements, and as a pure rental facility. We have sold close to 60 memberships in the club, and are offering Gold, SIlver, and Bronze lifetime memberships at introductory prices of $15,000 $10,000 and $2,500. I can be reached at 603-898-0880 to answer any questions. Our web is www.clubmotorsports.com (http://www.clubmotorsports.com)
hope this was helpful

RSTPerformance
09-22-2003, 04:09 PM
dcroteau-

Your website looks great and the track looks very cool as well. I can't wait to see what comes out of this, I hope that you are very successful!!!

PS: (what is your name?)

09-23-2003, 11:52 AM
My name is Dan Croteau, I belong to the NER SCCA, BMW CCA White Mountain & Boston Chapters, and COMSCCA. I race a 95 BMW M3 LWT in ITE, and CM and instruct for BMW CCA and COM.

RSTPerformance
09-23-2003, 12:21 PM
Dan-

Thanks for the name... down the road when things are a little more settled I think that my brother and/or I will be contacting you to talk to you a bit more...

Just wanted to get the contact info for now http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Thanks again for all the work at making another place for us crazy racers to play!!!

Raymond Blethen

PS: Be sure to keep everyone updated here on progress...



[This message has been edited by RSTPerformance (edited September 23, 2003).]

dickita15
09-28-2003, 11:24 AM
contrary to any claims made by the manegement of CMI, New England Region SCCA has met with but has not committed to any dates at thier facility. I do not anticipate NER committing to race at CMI unless and untill much more progress is made by the track. They still ahve much work to do and i hope they are succesfull.
Dick Patullo
ner new track commitee member
ner comp board member

RSTPerformance
10-03-2003, 01:42 PM
Dan it looks like saturday is your big day! I hope all goes well and keep us updated on how things turn out!

http://www.thewmurchannel.com/news/2529931/detail.html

Stephen

lateapex911
10-03-2003, 08:57 PM
An ignorant question....If Dans firm bought the land with the intent of creating the track, and the regs at the time allowed it, how is it fair to change the regs now?

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

RSTPerformance
10-03-2003, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by lateapex911:


An ignorant question....If Dans firm bought the land with the intent of creating the track, and the regs at the time allowed it, how is it fair to change the regs now?




Just becasue they bought it doesn't mean they can build it. they could have gotten approval first. I can see why they might be pissed since the land wasn't zoned before hand but unfourtunaly that's politics and unfourtunatly an Emergency zoning law is something we as americans have. The ability to vote on what affects us. I do like how Dan listed proms as functions that will be held at his facility. I hope he "plays up" the things he will give back to the town. He will need all the help he cna get!

good Luck Dan.

Stephen

dickita15
10-04-2003, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by RSTPerformance:

Just becasue they bought it doesn't mean they can build it. they could have gotten approval first. ...Emergency zoning law is something we as americans have. The ability to vote on what affects us.
Stephen

actually retroative zoning is considered a violation of something else we americans have, property rights. Unfortunatley some courts have been chipping away at personal rights in exchange for the peercieved rights of society.
dick

lateapex911
10-04-2003, 11:07 AM
Seems to me like the time Peske took advantage of the "stock block" rule at Indy, got Mercedes to fund the effort, and hired a firm to build a "stock block" Mercedes for that one race. He knew he had the 'unfair advantage' and that the rules allowed it. He was the only guy to see the possibility and pull of the business aspects.

Now, if he shows up, runs fast, and wins the pole, and the snactioning body decides to change the rules to disallow stock block engines, would that be fair?! I think not. Even though he was doing a 'diservice' to the rest of the field?


Kind of like moving in next to the local AA baseball field in the winter, then sueing the town in the summer over the noise and light!

To the town, I say, the horse is out of the barn. The thing to do is create compromises that are livable and fair to all parties. Sound restrictions, etc. (Which they have done. The agreed on sound restriction is set at the property line at a limit lower than the ambient traffic noise of the road the facility is located on!! I can't see how the residents can complain about THAT!)

But this changing the ruling stuff because the town lacked the forsight to set up regulations they could live with is, legal or not, ridiculous.

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]