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Jiveslug
09-29-2004, 01:05 PM
Hey Oddballers! I must say that I admire your creativity and determination to be unique. I feel ya because Ive discovered that I have the personality of an Oddballer as well. So, I got to thinking, what should be the next great Oddball experiment? Here is what I think:

84-85 Corolla GTS- Drifters can bite me. hehe. According to Jake's spreadsheet, weighs 2210 in race trim, 1.6 4AGE motor, RWD, decent brakes and gearing.

87-89? Alfa Romeo Milano Verde- 50/50 weight dist, 3.0 litre motor makes tons o'power, cool Italian car.

91-92 Saab 900- Ok, so I dont know why, it just strikes me as kinda good. Maybe its because I like the 900 Turbo I had....

What would you guys throw in there as the next Oddball candidate?

JeffYoung
09-29-2004, 01:15 PM
There is a Milano Verde in the SEDiv, silver and fast as stink in a straight line (and not bad in the corners too). It won a SARRC race at Lowe's Motor Speedway a few years ago. Cool car.

I've always wanted to see a Triumph GT6 IT car. Cool little six cylinder, but evil, evil rear suspension.

RSTPerformance
09-29-2004, 01:41 PM
2 People have raced the Saab 900's in the northeast. nat Wentworth has had a bit of luck. If you are really interested you might want to try and contact him.
He has done his best in the rain.

Raymond

joeg
09-29-2004, 03:01 PM
I would imagine anything French, British or Italian would qualify

BMW RACER
09-29-2004, 03:42 PM
How about a Ford Cortina GT In ITC? I think I was "FORD RACER" In another web life.

joeg
09-29-2004, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by BMW RACER:
How about a Ford Cortina GT In ITC? I think I was "FORD RACER" In another web life.

Absolutely...but talk about vintage!

m glassburner
09-29-2004, 05:50 PM
I know of three dodge omni's ,one of which I think is totaled....not a rare car....race car yes...I like it http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

gsbaker
09-29-2004, 06:17 PM
It's not IT, but the old Porsche 914s were fun to drive. Not a lot of motor, and the brakes could use some work, but my old '74 would flat go around a corner--or go around a corner flat.

I know it typically shows up in something like SP (with the six), but could this car be in IT with the four banger?

I know where my old one is. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/cool.gif

Gregg

Jiveslug
09-29-2004, 06:26 PM
Hey Jeff. I always liked Triumphs and had thought about the GT6 (almost bought one until the wife nixed it for space reasons. Damn her rational brain!!), but the 83 inch wheelbase scares me. I dont think I could FIT in the car. The Miata is tiny to me and its 89 inches. There is a good amount of info on how to set one up for racing tho.
I think the trick to running an oddball might be to find a car that has had some racing success in other countries and see if you can apply those lessons learned to cars brought stateside (i.e. lots of info on racing Saabs in Sweeden, Alfas in Italy, and Toyotas in Austrailia and Japan).
I also thought about the Omni/Charger as an ITB car. Where can you even get racing parts? That seems like it would be a big challenge.

Jiveslug
09-29-2004, 06:27 PM
Hey Gregg. I believe there is talk of moving the 914 2.0 to ITB and the 1.7/1.8 to ITC for 2005.... That may breathe new life into them for the IT ranks.

JohnRW
09-29-2004, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by Jiveslug:
I always liked Triumphs and had thought about the GT6 (almost bought one until the wife nixed it for space reasons. Damn her rational brain!!), but the 83 inch wheelbase scares me


It's not the size...it's the swing-axles that should scare you. They're treacherous little bastards.

Renaultfool
09-29-2004, 06:44 PM
Like Joeg says, French!
I race the Renault Alliance with the 1.7 engine in IT-C. Biggest engine in the class and the car is near minimum weight (and I weigh near 250) without all that scraping needed in some cars. It is reliable, I just replaced the engine after over 50 weekends. Even with the tired engine it would run in the top 5. With a fresh (used) engine it runs in the top 2. There were lots of them around with cages after the Renault Cup. I still have 3. (the fool part)
Typically French, they come with a white flag in the glove box!

cherokee
09-29-2004, 07:26 PM
I have a GT6 road car totally stock. I was at a drive up one time and a teeny bopper asked what kind of car it was, A Triumph I told her. Who made it she asked, I told her Standard Triumph and then gave her a 10 minute lesson on LBC. When people see it they just stop and can't help but come over and start talking to you....I LOVE that. When you take a turn at even a brisk speed all I have to say is OH MY GOD! That nasty little wheel tuck can be fixed, and I think IT leagal. Mine is just too pretty to have been turned into a race car. There are a couple of prod GT6 cars that run around here that are just too cool. They don't do very well but they do make me stop and look. Those are the cars that I want to win.


In my worst Frenchy accent:
Viva la difference!!!!!!

Knestis
09-29-2004, 07:58 PM
If I had relatives on the continent, a Fiat 124 Sport Coupe in ITC.

I don't see that Corolla as an oddball at all. There were several of them running in the NW in the late '80s and early '90s. They just didn't have what it took to keep up in ITA so they got mothballed.

K

eh_tony!!!
09-29-2004, 08:38 PM
Kirk!!!!!!!!!!!

We mostly disagree on rules interpretations, but I just KNEW you weren't all bad..
Finally I found a soft spot..

a 124 sport coupe is a GREAT ITC car... And I know where one is...

Also a Milano Verde incomplete, but with cage...

Knestis
09-29-2004, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by eh_tony!!!:
... And I know where one is...

Yeah, but does it have an intact washer bottle? Or is it a bag on that one? http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

K

Jiveslug
09-30-2004, 12:39 AM
Ya know, I have heard rumors about that Milano Verde with the cage for a couple of years now. I believe its in Florida if memory serves. Do you know why its still sitting?
Fiats are cool, but considering that my region has all of 3 ITC cars....
What about 83-85 Celicas? I think anything Toyota pretty much qualifies as an oddball. They all seem to be classed in a fashion that pretty much guarantees they will never have a following. Shame too, because they make some good cars....
Oh, before I forget, Jeff, do you have your website with the TR8 still up? Id love to see how things are going.

jhooten
09-30-2004, 08:38 AM
So my ITS 85 Celica-Supra qualifies me for membership in the oddball club then?

So far I have just found Eibach springs for it. It rolls like a hog in a good moist waller around most corners and a quick switch back is a thrill to rivel the best rides at the amusement park.

Looking for some suspension bits for it in the land down under. I hear they have been raced with some success there.

Ron Earp
09-30-2004, 09:39 AM
The GT6 is a really cool little car. I've driven and wrenched on a few as well as co-owned one of the little things back in the 80s. Our was crap, but, if you started with a good one I think it could race. Maybe not that great, but, it'd be fun.

There were some that were successful in open classes back in the day. One thing that will limit it is that lump of a power plant - in IT trim there isn't much legal stuff that can be done to help it.

That wheel base is short, as mentioned, but shouldn't be a huge issue if one got used to it and worked on the rear end.

If I didn't have the JH I'd probably be gunning for one of these! Building another Honduh or similar might be the fast way to the top but sure as heck smacks of "me too!".

------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

cherokee
09-30-2004, 09:47 PM
What do you all think about a Team Odd Ball site?

JeffYoung
10-01-2004, 12:14 AM
Cherokee, I think YES. Hell there is IT2, why not IT0......lol.

Ron, Group 44 won a couple of championships with the gT6 in the early 70s in I think D production racing against Datsun 2000s and the like. Bob Tullius called the car the "evil little car" but they made it go fast. There is a website devoted to the D Production Datsun 200s that has some good shots of the car in action. I'll try to post a link to it:

http://www.datsun.org/fairlady/fuerstenaumcqueen.htm

Is it in ITB or C? I think in either class it might be a decent contender. It's light as hell, nice but heavy six, and probably can make 130 or so hp in IT trim. Maybe.

You'd need a GT6+ or whatever year it was that had the "fixed" rear suspension, but it would be doable.

Maybe one day I'll build one.....

Jiveslug
10-01-2004, 02:46 AM
Of course, you can also get competition prep manuals for the GT6, so that removes a lot of the guess work normally involved with oddballs. The "fixed" suspension was for the Mk I models which predate the ITA spec line, so no problem there. Im not sure if the ITCS spec refers to the Mk II or Mk III models. Im assuming the Mk III, since they had a production run from 1970-1973. If you think that 130 hp is possible, thats a good ratio considering the race weight is 2005 lbs. Im thinking it really could be as fast as say a first gen RX7... Not cutting edge, but not a slug either.....

Ron Earp
10-01-2004, 07:02 AM
That little joker might make 130hp, if it has a, say, 2.0L Ford motor hooked up to it in tandem! ;-)

I don't know, it might do okay though. I was not overly impressed with the motor, that is for sure, but I loved the car. Seemed ours was the special HRPP model they used, the "Highly Resistant to Power Production" inline 6 version. We had a stock 92hp, iron duke Fiero at the time that would smoke the GT6, not good.

For me, personally, the size is fine and I liked driving the car. Short though, I think it might fit between the two wheels of the Jensen! Now after starting to look at some cars I'm seeing that while the Jensen is light, it is damn huge. Which might lead one to believe its' average density is low and unsafe. Maybe I should paint it grey and name it after a boat.

------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited October 01, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited October 01, 2004).]

Jiveslug
10-01-2004, 01:46 PM
Then of course theres the MGB in ITB. That would be an oddball too. I seem to think that it would make a poor racer in IT trim tho. Its a shame too, because the MGB GT is kind of a cool car.

eh_tony!!!
10-02-2004, 08:49 PM
Definately a bagger, unless muskrats ate it..

The Milano is in Charlotte, NC.. pretty much a complete car, but not completed. It is currently sitting at the Baucom Motorsports shop.

The other Milano (silver one, completed) is also in Charlotte.
Would love to see someone take this car and finish it..

prowlerflyer
10-04-2004, 01:46 PM
The Milano Verde is still very viable in ITS and quite quick if properly set up. Was quite quick back in old Firehawk series but not supported well. Good power, decent brakes if at min weight and solid handling (255 will fit in wheel wells). Weakness, inboard rear brakes will melt transaxle halfshaft seals if not properly cooled, parts cost/availability, getting to min weight.
The Corolla is a good choice also (Nick Craw ran one for several years) great motor, decent handling, ok brakes, aero slick on fast tracks (HB body). If I remember like most Toyotas weight is its big enemy.
I had a GT6 also that I started to prep for IT but enough power cannot be had from the very heavy motor. Evil rear suspension can be corrected with vast aftermarket parts that are same as Spitfire. Brakes not so hot for track use, but also can be made managable. Maybe competitive if you have Huffaker build you a $10k motor. Great street car though.
Personally I think the Alfetta GT is still a good shot in ITB if your willing to spend the money to get a fully done motor. Parts for the suspension are available if you look, ridiculously low competition weight, brakes are good at min weight, ability to fit wide tires.
Did have a couple of brothers build two top notch 914's for ITS and ITA in SF region back in the late 80's early 90's, but could not make them competive due to lack of power.

Steve

Spinnetti
10-04-2004, 09:45 PM
My Corolla is an oddball? http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif

I've been racing it before the drift scene existed in the US (1993), and its a great little race car, and the parts last longer than anything else I've heard of. I recently mic'ed my front factory discs after 8hrs of track time, and they still measure thicker than after market new rotors! It's not at the top of the pack any more, but fully prepped, I can still generally run top 5 at any track

MMcCaughey
10-07-2004, 03:56 PM
My Soon to be Corolla is an oddball too!? http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Hey guys, my Dads old 88 SSC Corolla will hopfully be on the track in the near future. Will need to prep it from its street car specs lol. The good thing is it wont be very hard at all.

see ya soon,
Mark

racerdrew43
10-07-2004, 05:10 PM
I've had at least one person ask "What is it" at every weekend I've raced the EXP

Soflow1
10-08-2004, 10:08 AM
I'm doing my part as far as bringing oddballs to the track.

90 Oldsmobile Calais (ITS)
93 Oldsmobile Achieva SCX (ITS)
91 Toyota MR2 (ITS)

When will I ever learn!!!

ITANorm
10-11-2004, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by Knestis:
Yeah, but does it have an intact washer bottle? Or is it a bag on that one? http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

K

Definitely a bag. I had one I was building about 20 years ago, until a nasty divorce intervened. I still think it would be an awesome car for ITC.



[This message has been edited by ITANorm (edited October 11, 2004).]

Hans
10-12-2004, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by RSTPerformance:
2 People have raced the Saab 900's in the northeast. nat Wentworth has had a bit of luck. If you are really interested you might want to try and contact him.
He has done his best in the rain.

Raymond


Raymond, Could you put me in touch with these guys? I'm looking for a LSD.

Thanks, Hans

h.adomeit (at) gmx.net

x1/9racer
10-16-2004, 11:39 AM
I know it's not exactly an oddball in Production, but my ITC Fiat X1/9 seems to be one of a kind these days, at least in the Ohio area. Ralph Denney has an ITC Fiat 124 sport coupe, but I don't think it's been on track in a few years.

Prince Makaha
10-17-2004, 02:32 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmm.........how about the Geo Storm GSI with the 130hp 1.8?

ITANorm
11-02-2004, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Prince Makaha:
Hmmmmmmmmmm.........how about the Geo Storm GSI with the 130hp 1.8?

I'd lean more toward a Prizm GSi, or a Corolla FX-16. The 4AG Toyota is a far more buildable engine than the Isuzu 1.8 in the Storm - and parts are a lot more accessable.

The AE86 Corolla is just worth too much to build into an IT car, IMHO, and the one I've seen was not that quick. I lapped him both times we raced (of course, driver, preparation, etc., may not have been top notch, either).

Spinnetti
11-07-2004, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by ITANorm:
I'd lean more toward a Prizm GSi, or a Corolla FX-16. The 4AG Toyota is a far more buildable engine than the Isuzu 1.8 in the Storm - and parts are a lot more accessable.

The AE86 Corolla is just worth too much to build into an IT car, IMHO, and the one I've seen was not that quick. I lapped him both times we raced (of course, driver, preparation, etc., may not have been top notch, either).



AE86 worth too much? What do you mean? I have a nice one, and its fun in IT/A, though its hard to run at the front in it. I used to, but I'm typically at the back of the lead pack now.

ITANorm
11-07-2004, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Spinnetti:
AE86 worth too much? What do you mean?

A clean street Corolla GTS (AE88 actually) is bringing upwards of $4K in the dorifto / Initia1 D group. I'd hesitate on taking a clean one and building it into what - for now - would be a mid-pack car at best.

I think, if I were starting out, I'd go with an AE82 / 89 - FX-16 / GTS in ITB.

FWIW, my AW11 is usually in, but not at the front of, the lead group. That is not indicative, however, because in MiDiv, we usually only have 4 or 5 ITA cars in a race group.

<edit>
Comparing times (hard to do with any reliability) with known competitors who ran the ARRC - I'd have probably been in the lower middle part of the qualifiers.


[This message has been edited by ITANorm (edited November 07, 2004).]

Bill Miller
11-21-2004, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by BMW RACER:
How about a Ford Cortina GT In ITC? I think I was "FORD RACER" In another web life.


Talk about a car that's probably worth too much to be made into an IT car. Stock hp/wt ratios put it at the top of ITC. The cars are 35+ years old, and I can't remember the last time I saw one on the street. Anything that's solid enough and complete enough is probbly worth more as a collector car. Back in the mid-late 70's, I knew a guy that had one. Fun little car!

As far as oddballs go, original Mercury Capri 2.0. Had one as a street car. Lots of fun!!! I know there are a couple that are being raced, but I'd say that it classifies as an oddball.


------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

joeg
11-22-2004, 10:03 AM
Bill--There are actually two Cortinas parked outside our LA Condo.

Both are faded, daily drivers and actually run (they move from one side of the street to the other).

I have to make an effort to meet the owner on one of the trips out there.

Cheers

BMW RACER
11-22-2004, 05:11 PM
Joeg. Is that LA like Los Angeles? Im in West LA.
Bill I think the Cortuna would be great, did you see the weight 1780# with driver!! Thats 300# less than the trusty 510. I also agree about the Crapi When I first started in IT (1980) that was a car that could give a 2002 a run for the money.
John Norris

joeg
11-22-2004, 05:22 PM
No; that's LA as in West Hollywood.

I've seen these cars near the corner of Selma and Heyworth.

Cheers.

Jiveslug
12-04-2004, 05:07 PM
Hey, let me know what happens with those Cortinas. I live in Torrance, so thats an easy drive for me... well, on the weekends at least. Maybe the dude will sell both. Heh. I dont know how expensive parts would be on those things nowadays tho.

On another note, hi John! I met you last year at the race in Fontana. You were running your old white E30 BMW. Im still hanging around trying to get into racing, but getting married set me back a little bit. Ill get there tho!

Prince Makaha
10-16-2007, 10:49 AM
I&#39;ve noticed the isuzu stylus and the impulse (front drive) also have the 16 valve engine (1.8 and 1.6) that seem to pull pretty hard but they have the advantage of 4 wheel disc and larger front rotors than the geo storms that sport tiny front rotors and rear drums.

I&#39;ve also notived that only the stylus is classified in cars that run this engine.