View Full Version : IT Italians

12-15-2003, 06:54 PM
Hey all. Ok, so how about this for an oddball: 1976-77 Lancia Scorpion. It is already listed as an EP car but not in IT. I was looking at specs and it seems like it would be fun (read: probably not competitive). Its got a curb weight of 2300 lbs and has a twin-cam 1.8 litre motor that puts out... get ready..... 83hp!!!! Ok, so the comp board would place it in ITA with a weight of 2600 lbs because it is mid-engined, but I always loved these cars since Herbie Goes to Montecarlo.....

On another note, how many Fiat racers are out there? I have a way to get the above mentioned Lancia or a 124 for cheap and the parts are REALLY inexpensive. Any thoughts? Jive

12-15-2003, 07:29 PM
...or you could just pour used motor and gearbox oil on the floor of your garage, and put boxes of failed Magnetti Marelli electicals in the corners and PRETEND that you are "racing" a Lancia. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Seriously, I'll bet that the CB wouldn't classify it at this point in time - "lack of member interest" and all. I wouldn't be at ALL surprised if it used to be classified and was dropped from the list because nobody ran one.


12-15-2003, 07:40 PM
Heh, thats funny. Lack of interest doesnt seem to affect the classification of the Chevette now does it. hehe.

12-15-2003, 07:51 PM
However, lets say you own a car that is not classed and want to build it into a racer, how amenable is the comp board to classing it? Im not talking a car like a 911 Turbo, but something along the lines of the Lancia. Or are you just stuck running ITE?

12-15-2003, 08:22 PM
Interestingly enough, there is an EP Scorpion here in the SEDiv. It has tons of problems. Quite possibly more unreliable than my Triumph. I don't think I've ever seen it finish a race, but it looks and sounds cool.

The ITB Alfa and Fiat Spiders/Spyders do ok. I know of an Alfa for sale for I think about $10k that actually won an East Coast Regional Enduro championship in the early 90s. Pete Krause has it at Krause and England in Raleigh (781-1871 I think, area 919).

In fact, in the SEDiv, I'd call Peter first if you have any interest in Italian hardware. He's an Alfa and Fiat encyclopedia. He builds fast GTVs and 850s, among others.

Isn't the X1/9 in C? That always seemed like it might have a chance. Mid-engined and real light weight. I know there are some in Production, but I've never seen an IT X1/9.

Oh yes, I nearly forgot. The Alfa Milano Verde 3.0 is in ITS. There is a silver one in SEDiv. It is FAST on the straights. REAL fast, as in 325i fast. It recently won a race at Charlotte/Lowes Motor Speedway. It was for sale not too long ago, and I ran against it in the rain in November. Pretty car, and did I say FAST on the straights?

12-15-2003, 08:37 PM
Hey Jeff. I always thought the Milano Verde was a good call for ITS. Which reminds me, how is the TR8 coming. I looked back into the archives to get to your website but the link is no longer valid. You have a new one?

ANYway, the X1/9 does seem to be a good car for C. There is one out here in SoPac raced by David Snow. Unfortunately there are only 3 other ITC cars out here so its hard to guage how fast it is... The parts are dirt cheap tho. Brake rotors are $17 a pop, for example. I believe the Fiat 124s are pretty similar as far as parts are concerned. Its also one of the thing that I though was interesting about the Lancia as 80% of its parts are shared with the X1/9. Maybe Ill pick up the Lancia as a fun street car.... http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

I love the Alfas but I shy away from them since they are terribly expensive. Go figure. I never considered myself one to have expnesive tastes.... haha. Anyway, just looking (as always) for a car to run besides a Honda or VW.....

12-15-2003, 08:52 PM
Rick Pocock's red ITB Alfa spyder is for sale (check in Sportscar). Rick was my instructor in school at Lime Rock and probably still owns the LRP track record in that Alfa. Very nice looking car too.


12-15-2003, 11:17 PM
It is always possible to request classification but I was serious about being dubious that the CB is going to classify a car that is approaching 30 years old in IT. Remember that it isn't my decision and I could be wrong.

The Chevette and some others that seem like oddballs now were classified initially because they were in SS ages ago. There was a concerted effort a few years ago to prune the IT lists but cars that were already classified were kept if even one person had one logbooked and wanted it to stay.


EDIT - my perspective may be skewed: A friend of mine had a Beta and couldn't get parts for it when it was only 5 years old...

[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited December 15, 2003).]

Greg Gauper
12-15-2003, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Knestis:

EDIT - my perspective may be skewed: A friend of mine had a Beta and couldn't get parts for it when it was only 5 years old...

No, it isn't skewed. A friend of ours used to race a Fiat spyder in SS in the 70's....he couldn't get parts on a car 5 weeks old http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Then he got smart and raced an Alfa......which I think is Italian for "car that eats head gaskets"

12-15-2003, 11:45 PM
Jim Susko, of Mazda fame, fools around with X 1/9s.

It will be an uphill battle though!~

Funny stuff Kirk!

I'll secong the Milanos straight speed. But they look a little leany in the corners. Another uphill battle.

Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

12-16-2003, 12:51 AM
Jive, thanks for asking about the 8. Yes, site is down, not sure why. But, did finish my first season in the 8. Had all kinds of issues early with a bad miss. Simply could not run down the straights. Ultimately overheadted a couple of times and tore the motor up. After a mid-season motor replacement, and some fiddling with the carbs and ignition, finally got the car to run down the straights at VIR at the last race of the season....and then put it in the tire wall in the rain. So, have some body work (not too bad) to do over the winter, but all in all, very pleased with my Oddball. It sounds awesome, and actually goes pretty well now. Slowly working through the reliability issues. I can see some semblance of reliability coming......

I've always loved Scorpions/Monte Carlos. Great looking car. But, I'd definitely race the X1/9 and drive the Scorp on the street.

I know several guys who have X1/9s. Parts aren't too bad, most of them come off of pretty standard Fiat sedans and can be had for reasonable prices via the net.

If you get an X1/9 sorted, I think it would be a lot of fun.

12-16-2003, 09:16 AM
Chris Land had a X1/9 built by Mark Irwin(of FP Runoffs fame) that ran in ITC. He sold the car and I have lost track of it. He did quite well with it but that may have been before Hwords got into C also. I remember Mark saying that the 1.3 had more potential than the 1.5 at the time but dont recall the reason.
Also Gary Baucum (John's Dad) used to have a purple Fiat Spyder in ITB that was pretty damn fast too.

12-17-2003, 09:00 AM
Mark Saladino is a LI Fiat guru who used to run an early X1/9 in the early 90's with some degree of success both in EMRA and SCCA. He sold the car to a guy named Jim Tears who promptly stuffed it heavily at West Bend (Lime Rock).

Last I heard the car got loaded onto the trailer that day (I helped and managed to break a finger doing it.) and was still in the trailer several years later.

12-17-2003, 09:57 PM
Dave Strittmatter (sp ?) ran a fast red Fiat Spyder 124 (?) in ITB at Watkins Glen, a couple of years ago. As I recall he finished 1st and top 5 on Sat & Sun.


Prince Makaha
12-17-2003, 10:31 PM
Greg Plush had a pretty fast Fiat in the early 90s.

12-19-2003, 05:13 PM

I'd forget the scorpion, it might slide into 'B' if it was classified, but IMHO the 1800 is down on power.

Dave's 124 is an 1800 and seems to do OK.
Peter does have an ITB alfa that he bought. Seems to be a nicely prepped car. I know the alfa's can be made to go fast as well.

The 2 liter 124 is IMHO (maybe I'm partial) the car to have if you are into Italian. It will weigh in at 200 lbs less than the Alfa. Plus, it has EFI rather than the 1800's carb or the Alfa's spica (good but finiky)

Then you could also run a 1600 124 in ITC. This has lots of potential as the older 1600 124 coupe used to kick some butt around the US.

I have a 2liter that was built many years ago by John and Gary Baucom in Charlotte. If you don't know it, John has won 3 Runoffs in G(1458) and E(2000) production in Fiat spiders (now runs Trans-Am) . The car is exceptionally capable and has turned 1.58's at Kershaw with me driving my first time at the track. We recently took it to the ARRC and turned in a :51. Not stellar, but we had some issues with new tire/gearing (Hoosier only made their new tire in the 14" rim). I really do believe that the car can get into the :48's.

If you go the build route, I can save you some heartache with development. If you go the buy route, well my car happens to be for sale.

The Alfa milano that ran in SEDIV was also built by the Baucom's. John was driving it when it won. I have thought about building/buying one myself as, while I wasn't there, I have heard stories about the amount of straightaway speed that can be had from that engine.

As far as cost or reliability, both the 124 and Milano are very durable.. (Jeff, that Silver ITS car we are talking about.. the motor is 5 yrs old.) My last engine lasted 4 yrs before piston fatigue killed it. Also parts are cheap.. rotors $15-$18, rebuilt calipers $35, etc, etc.

The 124 has 2 weak links that can be solved with a donor car.
1) the shift fork and slider in the transmission (3/4th) wears and must be replaced annually. Carry a spare box.

2) The diff is weak and can break if you spin the car (welded or 1/4 locked).

1) Large range of ring and pinion gears. 3.58, 3.9, 4.10, 4.4
2) Can run 13's or 14's (more gearing options)
3) Big strong bumpers
4) very low cg
5) Simple to work on
6) so low that you can really catch a good draft from the rabbit/omni corwd
7) Can easily make min weight

1) a little heavy at 2330
2) solid front rotors (solve with ducts)
3) keeping the windscreen clear in a rain race.

[This message has been edited by eh_tony!!! (edited December 19, 2003).]

12-27-2003, 06:02 PM
Speaking of Lancia Scorpions, I was watching the runoff marathon on the 25th and the FProd race had a nice-looking Lancia driven by Strittmatter (who as mentioned above used to drive a Fiat 124) to a respectable mid-pack finish. As I recall, he was dicing with a Porsche 914 upto the chequered flag.

Also check out the latest Autoweek article on Lancias.

Are you sure the Lancias are EProd cars ?


12-28-2003, 09:17 PM
http://forums.improvedtouring.com/it/Forum...TML/000123.html (http://forums.improvedtouring.com/it/Forum3/HTML/000123.html)

thie link is the previous discussion on the car. what i found out is that someone my height (6-3) would probably find it a car to wear assuming i could make it fit with the rollcage and everything else.

theres alot of bodyparts around....in europe mostly. and the engine wouldnt be too bad especially with all the smog equipment removed...the exhaust manifold is VERY restrictive....imagine a good header and feee emissions and youre well on your way to 110 hp+ !!

i liked the one about boxes of magnetti marelli parts and pouring oil on the ground and calling it quits.