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BoostedLoser
07-17-2003, 12:47 AM
I have been into drag racing for a long time, I currently own a 92 AWD Laser RS that breaks 12.350's BUT I been wanting to get into SCCA since i got my first Fiero in 97 or so. Since then i knew how well they handled and tested its limits all the time. However now i want to play with the big boys on real tracks. I am wondering if anyone races Fiero's that anyone knows of? I just fully restored my suspension in my Fiero and want to race. If anyone can give me some tips or pointers let me know. I cant seem to find the info on what saftey precautions and such i need, or what mods i can do and still run ITA?

Thanks in advance!

------------------
~Craig Gibson
aim - AllTireFireLaser
yahoo - BoostedLoser

joeg
07-17-2003, 06:53 AM
Start by buying a GCR--the rule book. It will get you pointed in the right direction.

You purchase it from the SCCA and joining that organization is the next step.

Regards.

Weaver7
07-28-2003, 08:36 PM
What year Fiero?? If it is an 88 it would be interesting to see how it does. About 3 years ago there was a fellow that had one at Watkins Glen I don't think he did to awful bad. I must tell you though I have owned 4 Fieros and 2 are still in the garage. I really don't think that they will stand a chance against the CRX in ITA. I run an RX7 in ITA and we are struggling to keep up with the Honda guys.

ITSRX7
07-28-2003, 09:52 PM
I too have had mutiple years of Fiero's. IMHO, the V6's are both outclassed (88's in ITS and 85-87 in ITA) but the ITA version does have me wondering. Why?

You might be able to compensate for the crap suspension on the early car with IT legal mods. Light weight and V6 grunt. The 87 GT would be my choice with the 5-speed. Not a rev-machine but you could make some SERIOUS torque.

The ITS version just can't make enough power to hang with the BMW's, RX-7's and Z cars.

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

eh_tony!!!
07-28-2003, 10:57 PM
I almost, Almost, ALMOST have to disagree with you Andy. I've seen those 2.8's make some serios hp. A friend of mine had an old X-SS Citation X-11 (truck heads, 2bbl) and that thing made GOBS of high end hp. A 2.8 Baretta even did OK in Firehawk (I think) for a year.
I had a GMC Jimmy with one that we breathed on (only slightly) and it made 168 at the wheels ebfore it lost traction on the dyno (damn, peg leg). The mods were NOT IT legal though , basically 390 CFM holley, mild towing cam, shorty headers, and an edelbrock intake.

ITSRX7
07-29-2003, 10:49 AM
I am with you in that the 2.8 is untested and untapped. Realize that the RX-7's make 170+ rwhp and the BMW's make 205+ RWHP.

Yikes!

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

doug
07-29-2003, 11:31 AM
I think you'll find the intake manifold (specifically the middle section and the plenum) on the fieros is what kills hp and makes all that low end grunt.

Otherwise there's a lot going for the car - slippery, wide track, 4 wheel discs, a ton of torque, short wheel base, easily repaired body, only 'heavy' weight wise, GM mpfi system easily reprogrammed at home these days, pretty stiff chassis, and still a lot of cheap donor cars out there for parts.

I have yet to see any ita fiero show up that has really been built to the limit of the rules (or extent that the front running cars have)

Weaver7
07-29-2003, 12:29 PM
Is the 88 classed in ITS or ITA the only difference between the 85-87 and 88 is the vastly improved suspension.

Prince Makaha
08-01-2003, 09:16 PM
Datsun Dynamics ran the beretta. They may even have a couple of the extra engines that mysteriously appeared as gifts from chevrolet. Nobody wanted to look inside them to see whether chevy had pulled a fast one.

ITSRX7
08-01-2003, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by Weaver7:
Is the 88 classed in ITS or ITA the only difference between the 85-87 and 88 is the vastly improved suspension.

The 88 V6 is ITS and the 85-87 V6's are in ITA.

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

madrabbit15
08-03-2003, 08:34 PM
you must be looking at an old gcr, all years of fiero are in ITA, just the 88 has to weigh more. The 87 has no chance with the brakes it has, trust me, the 88 probably weighs too much, i think the best bet you would have with that engine is the cavalier, lighter and has vented brakes, sure its boxy, but you dont know how important brakes are until u dont have em.

ITSRX7
08-03-2003, 08:51 PM
You are right. My bad. Neither has a chance in ITA but the earlier car may do better with the lower weight.

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

Weaver7
08-06-2003, 12:37 PM
I weighed my 86 GT at the track. It was something like 2800 pounds. I would use the 86 SE or 85 GT notchback since they are a little bit less beefer.

tderonne
08-06-2003, 01:01 PM
Actually I think an '85 2M6 SE would be the one to build from. Or update/backdate too. Maybe with the GT (or later SE) nose for aero. I doubt anyone really knows the best route though, there are only a couple ITA cars around. Two from Waterford, one parked from Waterford, and a guy from California, who does quite well, but I forget his name.

'85 and '86 space frames were essentially identical. '87 had quite a few changes. I can't really recall if the '87 was any heavier, but it was supposed to be a little stronger.

How about a production Fiero? EP? Maybe FP with the 2.5? With the '88 chassis, at a nice light prod weight, who knows?




[This message has been edited by tderonne (edited August 06, 2003).]

Weaver7
08-13-2003, 02:44 PM
[quote]Originally posted by tderonne:
[B]Actually I think an '85 2M6 SE would be the one to build from.

Actually they never made an 85 2M6. They Made an 85 GT which is Identical to the 86 2M6 ( Which is what I own ) either way I agree with you probably would be the best way to go if you decide to go this route.

tderonne
08-13-2003, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by Weaver7:
Actually they never made an 85 2M6.

Sure did. I worked at the plant. I've got the dealer brochure too.

Not saying we made many, but they did exist.

wagnerov
08-14-2003, 07:37 PM
Has anyone run the Iron Duke Fiero in ITB?

I just had an '84 Fiero Indy practically donated to me, so I figured I could build an ITB underdog out of it over the next year or so. I just sent out for a GCR (I've been out of it for a while and was looking for an IT Specifications book, which I guess is now integrated into the GCR!), so that will get the ball rolling.

Is there anyone out there that does a bolt-in cage for the Fiero? I have a source that will do a custom cage for me, but I want to check my options first. Any other advice? At least there seems to be plenty of parts in the junkyards...

As long as I don't finish last, I'll be happy. Thanks!

cherokee
08-15-2003, 08:04 AM
I was thinking about doing up my 84 Fiero about a year ago...then got to talking to people...the little thing has a good little motor with lots of torque...but runs out of air in the high rpm's...one of the roundy round guys here runs one in his Pony Stock...that little sucker is fast...but not IT leagal. I ended up buying a 85 MR2 while I finish my Opel. The MR2 is a lot of fun but has some of the same problems in ITA. You would have good brakes.

wagnerov
08-15-2003, 07:37 PM
Thanks. I've noticed that the 2.5 wheezes and sounds like it would be better suited as a vacuum cleaner at high rpm, but it still has plenty of torque. And it would still provide a lot of fun on the track. There's lots of parts for Fieros out there to make things a little bit easier.

After all, I can't argue with a free car...so i'm going to stick with it.

Bill Gotwalt
08-17-2003, 04:33 PM
I built and race an ITB Fiero--it was sold to a guy in NC--saw it on ebay about 8 months ago--he had never raced it---I have LOTS of info on doing this---if you want it email me at [email protected] much to go into here.....

GEO46
08-17-2003, 08:17 PM
FWIW, there are 3 Fiero's that regularly run at WHRRI. Don't know the specific yrs/models. Two ITA cars and an ITB. Occasionaly we get a GT2 Fiero out there. Also, at our SCCA/WHRRI dual Reg. there was another ITA which is the one i believe Tderonne was refering to. I've never seen one built to the nines either.

madrabbit15
08-18-2003, 09:54 PM
I built a street fiero 4 cylinder when i was 15, from the ground up, and I can tell you i think there is some major potential there. Most of what i did was IT legal, and I ran the stock throttle body and it reved very nicely. Finding or having a really good header for it I think would be the key, the stock exhaustmanifold is horrible, I just reworked mine, and ran a 2.5 pipe through a superturbo muffler, no cat, and it was fast. kicked the butt of all those guys with their 16v vws. The horrible suspension is easily fixed with the delrin bushings for it. did not really do much with the cam or the compression, but i swear it was as fast as a lot of v6s. But if your gonna build a fiero, i think the V6 has more potential for its class.

airpiraterob
08-20-2003, 12:17 AM
so just what is the suspension design like and how adjustable can it really be? (how muhc lowering can one do before hitting that 5" min.?)

Wayne Schultz
08-20-2003, 11:59 AM
You can lower the car alot. It rides on it's bump stops at about 3-1/2". I know because I had some (Cheap) lowering springs and they eventually full collapsed. I guess the Koni's overpowered them. You shouldn't have any problem lowering the front by either using Eibachs or cutting coils.

airpiraterob
08-22-2003, 01:23 AM
perhaps someone can help me understand this but as i understood it, the engine location and car design didnt allow a standard sized oil pan to be installed, therefore not enough volume to feed it and therefore reduced RPM redline. any truth to this? specific to both 4's and 6's or just one in particular? what i remember from riding in the 6 once was "my goodness...thats an awfully low redline"..but then it is a torque motor. oh yeah, the last few years of the 6 had the Getrag 5 speed tranny....very quality stuff

[This message has been edited by airpiraterob (edited August 22, 2003).]

tderonne
08-22-2003, 07:53 AM
Originally posted by airpiraterob:
... any truth to this?
[This message has been edited by airpiraterob (edited August 22, 2003).]

No.

Same cradle and hence oil pan as their FWD conterparts.

4 bangers did go to a 3 quart fill in '87 I believe as a cost/weight save.

Ok if you changed your oil.

Not ok when dealers remove the plant installed oil filer (different/unique) at 80,000 miles...

And the V6 got the 5 speed in late '86.

Wayne Schultz
08-22-2003, 11:37 AM
The Fiero was born as an economy 2 seater. To keep costs low everthing other than the body came out of the existing GM Parts bin. (The body was GM's first experiment with plastic body panels.) The corporate 4 banger at the time was the venerable "Iron Duke." It's oilpan hung to far below the chassis. Instead of designing an expensive replacement that would keep the designed capacity GM just shortened the pan and its capacity to around 4 qts. Throw in some defective push rods and you got some really hot oil hitting plastic, and Poof! Fire!

The V-6 fit with no changes required to Oil Pan.

airpiraterob
08-22-2003, 12:48 PM
heres a little research...dunno how old this link info is tho.

http://www.fiero.org/text/hpp1.html

its what, 2790 for the v6, whats the weight for the 4 in ITB?

[This message has been edited by airpiraterob (edited August 22, 2003).]

cherokee
08-22-2003, 09:25 PM
(up on soap box)
The fiero started life as a back and forth from work car, then someone a Pontiac said...this thing could be fun. A chevy truck engine was installed and BOOM car was fun...a little later nip here tuck there this thing out corners a Corvette...someone a Pontiac says "lets stick a quad4 in this sucker" it will be lighter the the 6 make more power we will have a real two seat sports car here...Someone at chevy says "Pontiac is building a two seats sports car...GM only has one two seat sports car AND IT IS BETTER AND CHEAPER THAN OURS something has to be done about that" So GM kills the fiero, it made money every year it was made and was killed for "projected profit losses" and the 89 prototype with the turbo quad4 is crushed.
(off soap box)
sorry I get testy when ever the Fiero comes up...it was a great car that was killed for no other reason other then corprate politics.

airpiraterob
08-24-2003, 12:57 PM
last one from me....
i know the 88 4 cyl is classified ITB, did this particular model get the improved suspension like the 6 did? what i dont know is its classified weight. ive also heard talk of 120 hp 4cyl motors being a very real possibility if in IT spec. very good topic. its one of the things that really makes you go hmmmm...

Wayne Schultz
08-26-2003, 11:48 AM
Yes, All 1988's had the same suspension. The v-6 had different springs and shocks and a rear sway bar. Don't know specs of the 4 cylinder motors. I do know they made significant changes in 1987 and 1988 to the 4cyl.

As for GM corporation killing the Fiero: They are good at killing good cars. In addition to the Fiero they killed the Corvair, the Full sized Impala, and most recently Oldsmobile, a whole division of their best cars!

lateapex911
08-26-2003, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Wayne Schultz:
......., and most recently Oldsmobile, a whole division of their best cars!

Well, you can only label the same car so many times with different companies names on it before the pie is sliced too thin.

And if the Olds models were the Generals best, it's no wonder the big guys market share continues to slip away.

Don't get me wrong, GM has some of the best resources on the planet, and is capable of building fine product, but management with a billion too many layers, huge issues with labor costs, both current and retirement, and too many divisions aiming at the same market kill them every time.

Not to mention this is the corporation that gave the green light to the AZTEC!!!!! Does ANYONE there have an OUNCE of common sense???? Really, how the hell did that slip out!??

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited August 26, 2003).]

airpiraterob
08-27-2003, 08:45 AM
you mean the Pontiac ass-tech? Is that the full-on realization of their slogan "We build excitement?"

lateapex911
08-27-2003, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by airpiraterob:
you mean the Pontiac ass-tech? Is that the full-on realization of their slogan "We build excitement?"

If running to the bathroom and spewing is your idea of "exciting", then yes!

http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

wagnerov
08-28-2003, 01:16 AM
Pretty much the only thing I haven't found for the Iron Duke yet is a set of headers. Hooker made some, but are discontinued. Those were by far the best looking ones I have seen so far.

Don D
09-01-2003, 05:59 PM
I have an í86 ITA Fiero that I ran in New England for 3 years. It finished top 10 at LRP and NHIS. My best was a fourth at WGI in 1999. I crashed the original car at LRP then built a new one, so I have lots of experience with the car. I havenít raced it in 2 years so I donít know if this is all still valid. Some general observations:
-Torque. I was always able to gain 2-3 positions at the start. It was fast where most other cars were slow.
-225-45-15. Not many ITA cars have that much tire.
-The mid-engine layout did well in the rain. I loved the rain.
-The brakes worked well but it did eat front pads and rotors.
-Some parts easy to find and cheap, some performance parts hard to find and expensive. (The only decent headers I have seen are like $650)

Development stopped on the new car after only 3 races when my boss made me an offer I couldnít refuse. Now I maintain 2 Spec Miatas, tow vehicles and trailers and race for free. I love the Fiero butÖ
The car was very solid but needed headers, some dyno time and a LSD to be optimized. Now I donít have the time to finish the project. Someone else is going to find out what it can do.

I have lots of parts sources that I am willing to share. My car is also for sale. See the classifieds.

-Don

itafiero
09-01-2003, 07:28 PM
I run a '88 Fiero in ITA. I can run in the top 5 in class. There are typically 15+ cars in ITA. In the last race I finished 3rd. I was off of the track record, which was set that day, by 2.5 seconds. I'd like to think that was do to my Hoosiers seeing 18 heat cycles. In fact I qualified 3rd with cord showing on one of the rear tires. I'm still not sure a new set of Hoosiers would make up the 2.5 seconds but they wouldn't hurt.

I'd like to see what an '85 Fiero would do. They are allowed to weigh in at 2560 w/d compared to my car having to weigh in at 2780 w/d. I just don't know if the brakes would be a big enough disadvantage to negate the 220# weight difference.

The other thing to consider with the '88 or earlier years for that matter is if you run as hard as I do you'll have to rotate the rear hubs out every couple of races. You'll have to also use the AC/Delco variety since the after market hubs are crap. This adds $200 per race unless you find an alternate hub that fits. I've done the latter but I'm not sure I can say it's 100% legal. It is better than a wheel flying off and uses the same bolt pattern as stock and gives no performance advantage. In addition the '88 has another problem: the front hub is a hub/axle assembly. These have been discontinued by all reliable manufactures and after 2-3 years of racing can break. I broke three when I ran at Waterford Hills, I had neglected to cycle two of them out. The third came from an unreliable manufacture who as just started making the hubs again. This hub lasted 3 1/2 laps and I can not recommend them to anyone. I use hubs from the junk yards which do have a fair supply of 4 cylinder Fieros and since the suspension is the same I can use those hubs. It's not ideal and I'm looking for an alternative that uses new hubs because I'm not overly keen on using the bone yard parts if I can avoid it.

If I haven't completely turned you off to Fieros by the above warning and you do jump in to Fiero IT racing let me know. I think I may have the fastest ITA Fiero out there racing. I have found someone who makes good headers for the car. I also can jump start you with our suspension setup, spring rates, camber settings, etc.

Recent results:

http://www.sfrscca.org/Results/20030824/gr5.htm
http://www.sfrscca.org/Results/20030803/gr5.htm - 2 spins did me in
http://www.sfrscca.org/Results/20030803/gr5b.htm

lateapex911
09-01-2003, 08:43 PM
Itafiero- Alan, Congrats on your success. I checked out your results....if I'm reading correctly, you have a ton of Mazdas in ITA. But a lack of Hondas. Am I right? What do you see for competition, generally? Are all of those Mazdas RX-7s, or do a few RX-3s or RX-2s show up?

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

itafiero
09-01-2003, 10:31 PM
Thanks! Ron Carroll runs an Acura Integra but your right there are a lot of RX-7s. The Acura as run pretty fast but with the new service at Sears the RX-7s were able to set new track records. We've had some Hondas run with us and some from down south and they did run fast.

http://www.sfrscca.org/Results/20020825/gr5.htm

Robert Quintero runs an RX-3 but hasn't been out yet this year. He's usually the fastest of our bunch although Bob Bradfield has been setting a new bar for us all.

lateapex911
09-01-2003, 11:48 PM
Around here, the Hondas are putting down 125 HP, weigh a couple hundreds less than an RX-7, and don't have a live rear axle banging around! Tough to beat!

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

wagnerov
09-02-2003, 07:27 AM
Hey Alan,

Drop me an email. [email protected]

I used to work on that old Quintero RX-3 long before Robert owned it...back in the old Evilsizor days, and after Terry McCarthy drove it. Probably when the Fiero was still in ITS.

Are you still running a white Fiero? Or is it yellow now?

924Guy
09-02-2003, 08:27 AM
Back on topic with some Fiero-p*rn:
http://www.waterfordhills.com/gallery/jw03r64.jpg

(the blue #77 924 just about to start a train on the yellow Fiero is me... http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

------------------
Vaughan Scott
Detroit Region #280052
'79 924 #77 ITA/GTS1
www.vaughanscott.com

itafiero
09-02-2003, 11:15 AM
That was Steve Perkins you were following.

Here's a picture of me passing a RX-7 at Waterford Hills.

http://www.detroit-scca.org/news/race03e4p...4pics/s0158.jpg (http://www.detroit-scca.org/news/race03e4pics/s0158.jpg)

Here is link to some in car videos.

http://racer.net/itafiero/Video/

I'll be adding more video as time goes by. I have new DV camcorder so I'm uploading my video collection which goes back '92.

airpiraterob
09-03-2003, 10:41 AM
dude,
really nice footage...
what happened in that 2nd off at laguna?

Wayne Schultz
09-03-2003, 03:13 PM
ITAFiero what is your email address? I'll take any info you can find about setting up my 85 Fiero.

itafiero
09-03-2003, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by airpiraterob:
dude,
really nice footage...
what happened in that 2nd off at laguna?


I hit some oil laid down by an RX-7. It's hard to see in the on line video. I thought I had broken something since it let go so quickly and unexpectedly. But there wasn't anything broken and if you noticed a few turns back (27:31 minutes in to the video) an RX-7 spun in front of me so I think that supports the oil theory.

itafiero
09-03-2003, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by Wayne Schultz:
ITAFiero what is your email address? I'll take any info you can find about setting up my 85 Fiero.

[email protected] also join the fieroracinglist on groups.yahoo.com. They have a lot of input and there are ITB and ITA Fiero racers on the list.