Ready for one more question?

[Jiveslug]

Ok everyone. Im getting really close to acquiring the car for my IT project. I basically have it down to two candidates. Ive been asking about the camshafts and body styles for one, now Im wondering about engines for the other. Let me ‘splain

The car Im looking at, the production year Im looking at, is qualified in both ITA and ITB. The ITA car is the 6 cylinder, the ITB car is the 4-banger. Now, since there is an overlap in years, and since the cars are almost identical except for driveline, can you take one and convert it to the other? So, if I find a 6 cylinder, for example, and convert it to the 4-banger spec (which in this particular case is only the engine and bellhousing), would that be allowed?

Thanks again!

[Ron Earp]

Let me guess - a Fiero?

I think the answer to this is no, you cannot do this. And if the other question was regarding the Jensens had to do with the Jensen GT, no, you can't run that since it isn't classed. But you can get it classed, however, it weighed more and wouldn't be as good as the roadster.

Sorry I have to guess so much, but you don't give us much to go on! ;-)

------------------
Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
White Jensen-Healey ITS
Silver "Skull" 260Z ITS
Email: "rlearp at gt40s.com"

[Andy Bettencourt]

Regardless of it's legality (it isn't but people do it) just don't do it. You will save yourself a crapload of pain and suffering by starting with the right donor.

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)
http://www.flatout-motorsports.com/images/misc/RX-7_Avitar.jpg

[Jiveslug]

Wrong on both counts Ron!! Hehe. Sorry. I would be much more specific, but Im superstitious about it and dont want to jinx anything (yes,lame, I know). Thanks for the help guys!

[joeg]

VIN plates don't lie!

[benracin]

Me and my work buddy are having a good arguement. So what makes this engine change illegal, when like an rx7 can swap rear ends from a drum to a disc like some do? My explination of "because, that's why" isn't cutting it.

[Jiveslug]

I think the reason is because with that swap, you are not changing class. For example, an RX7 is still ITS (I think, in this case) regardless of what rear end is on it. The 84-85 GSL cars with the 13B and the standard 84-85 cars with the 12A would have a similar problem to what I am talking about. Regardless, I think that this really shouldnt be an issue. If the car is speced out the same as the vehicle in the line of the ITCS, what does it matter where the shell came from? Oh well, dems da rules.

[Ron Earp]

Jeff says a Capri. Good motor, but the good fast goodies for it, which are abundant, will get you in trouble.

It shouldn't get you in trouble, but for some cars it is not so cut and dried and thus that is why the rule is there I suppose.

------------------
Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
White Jensen-Healey ITS
Silver "Skull" 260Z ITS
Email: "rlearp at gt40s.com"

[dickita15]

in the 12a ITA rx7 example above the 84-85 witht he disc brakes is on the same spec line as the early with the drums so you can update backdate. the 13b ITS 85 had a different axel and bolt patern and is listed for ITS so you can not use them in a ITA car.

An ITS RX7 can use the aluminum hood off the convertable because it came on the GTU which is on the same same spec line as the base car.

the comment on VIN numbers is right on. if the vin number specs the motor you can not swap.
I do not know if this is true but I have been told with Hondahs the vin is model specific but with VW's you can not always tell what the drive train was so you can use a different shell if you swap everything that was different.
dick patulo

[Jiveslug]

Ding!!! Ok, Jeff gets a prize! That is one of the cars, but since I didnt say it, its not jinxed. Anyway, the probability of the swap to the 4 from the 6 is very low, but I wanted to know what the rule was. The car would not have a chance in ITA, but its a good B car.

[Bill Miller]

Dick hit the nail on the head. If the VIN # has a digit that indicates engine size/configuration, and it differentiates between the 4-cyl and the 6-cyl, you can not do the swap. If it doesn't, you can. Very similar example is the VW Golf (2nd gen.). The 1.8 8v cars are in ITB, the 1.8 16v cars are in ITA. There are certain years where both configurations were built ('87 - '89, IIRC). There is nothing in the VIN# that differentiates the 8v from the 16v motors, so you can use any '87 -
'89 2-dr chassis to build either an 8v ITB car or a 16v ITA car from.

However, in the case of the '83-'84 Rabbits/GTIs, you are restricted to using a GTI chassis to build the ITB car, and a non-GTI chassis to build the ITC car, as there's a digit in the VIN # that identifies a car as having a 1.8 or a 1.7.

Totally absurd, but those are the rules.

And, since we're on the subject of VWs, I see that the Mk III Jetta has been moved from ITA to ITB, @ 2350#. This is the same weight that the Mk III Golf is at. Is this an indication that all the like generation Golfs/Jettas that are in the same class will have their weights set to the same value?

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Jiveslug]

Aha, thanks Bill. That makes sense. In the case of the Capris, there is a box on the vin plate that indicates what motor it has. Ill have to see what the plate actually says. Im not sure if the car Im looking at is origionally a six or if it was converted over (apparently thats a common swap on these cars). Thanks for the help!

[Bill Miller]

Which generation Capri? If it's the original ones (German ones), those all pre-date the 17-digit standard for VIN #s. And here's what I would consider a loophole. Even if there's a notation on the mfg. plate that contains the VIN #, that indicates the engine displacement, as long as there's nothing w/in the VIN # itself that calls out the engine type or displacement, you're good to go. Nothing says that you need the mfg. plate, just two VIN #s. Those could be a dash tag and a chassis stamping, which probably won't have any of the ancillary (sp?) information.

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Jiveslug]

Wow. Ok, now that is interesting. The Capri is a MKI, model year 1973. It is the German car and the VIN itself does not have an engine code, just the little box on the plate that says what the motor is.

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Jiveslug:
Wow. Ok, now that is interesting. The Capri is a MKI, model year 1973. It is the German car and the VIN itself does not have an engine code, just the little box on the plate that says what the motor is.

Then you can probably put either motor in the car, and be legal.

On a side note, I love the Mk I Capris. I had a '72 2000 when I was in college, and one of my frat brothers had a '74 2800. They were cool cars, and pretty unique at the time. But from what I remember, the build quality was pretty crappy. Mine was a '72, and I bought it in '78, and the rear wheel arches had already rotted away. The rear windows would fall out if you opened them, and the trannys seemed pretty fragile. That being said, it was still a blast to drive, and once I put the dual webers on it, I used to outrun my bro's 2800.

Also, shoot me an email if you'd be interested in talking about a carb for your car. millerwj _at_ yahoo _dot_ com



------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608