Which one of these...?

[pavis]

From an ad posted on this site. Which one of these modifications is not allowed in Improved Touring?

1.6 Liter stock engine - Timing belt, water pump, wires, plugs, rotor, cap etc. replaced
• Blueprinted injectors
• Modified ECU
• Modified Throttle Body
• 4-2-1- Header (wrapped) with flex-joint and "muffler"
• Replaced radiator with factory Honda parts
• 5-Speed manual shift, clutch replaced
• Flywheel "liberated of 10 lbs."
• OPM Limited Slip, final drive main bearings replaced


One, all, or some answers may be correct. Extra credit may be available.

[ddewhurst]

***Which one of these modifications is not allowed in Improved Touring?***

• Flywheel "liberated of 10 lbs."

Presuming the OEM flywheel was liberated of 10 pounds.

Have Fun http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif
David

Modified throttle body as well, of course, it would depend on exactly what was modified.

[chuck baader]

Both of the above, and prehaps the 5 speed? Some Hondas (ITC, Scott) weren't alowed 5 speeds. Chuck

[gran racing]

What is allowed to be modified on the throttle body?



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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[zracre]

removal of cruise control and linkage...i think thats it...I know someone who got dq'ed for putting shorter screws on the butterfly....

Evan Darling
ITA Integra

[This message has been edited by zracre (edited April 26, 2005).]

[Bill Miller]

Gotta pull out the book, but I don't know about the 'blueprinted injectors'.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[ITANorm]

Originally posted by Bill Miller:
Gotta pull out the book, but I don't know about the 'blueprinted injectors'.



If they're truly "blueprinted", they're legal. If they're "modified" they're not.

[gran racing]

Since it is on a civic si, what about the CRX si calipers? Do I get extra credit?

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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[racer14itc]

Originally posted by zracre:
removal of cruise control and linkage...i think thats it...I know someone who got dq'ed for putting shorter screws on the butterfly....

Evan Darling
ITA Integra


If they did, it was only because they didn't read the rulebook well enough. Fasteners are "free" so you can replace the throttle butterfly screws with "shorter" ones legally.

MC



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Mark Coffin
#14 GP BSI Racing/Action Digital/Airborn Coatings/Krispy Kreme VW Scirocco

[Gregg]

Originally posted by gran racing:
Since it is on a civic si, what about the CRX si calipers? Do I get extra credit?
If they're CRX Si calipers from an 88-89, you don't. They're the same part as on the Civic Si. Now if they're from a 90-91 that's another story.

As for the flywheel, how much weight should one expect to save when "refinishing" is performed? :-)



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Gregg Ginsberg
http://www.ginsberg.org
'89 CRX Si -- MARRS ITA #72
WDCR-SCCA Rookie of the Year 2003

[ddewhurst]

***If they did, it was only because they didn't read the rulebook well enough. Fasteners are "free" so you can replace the throttle butterfly screws with "shorter" ones legally.***

Mark, my thought was the same untill untill I re-read 17.1.4.D.1.a. "No venturi (including secondary or auxiliary) of any carburetor may be modifed in any way." Then I went to the glossary for the defination of venturi. COULD a coin be flipped on this glossary description? "A region of constriction in an air duct of a cabburetor in which, through the actions of incoming air flow, a reduced pressure is created to induce the inflow of fuel through one or more jets." Please follow up on this screw deal question.


***As for the flywheel, how much weight should one expect to save when "refinishing" is performed? :-)***

Gregg, lets see now. A good number for a OEM flywheel is 20 pounds. A flywheel liberated of 10 lbs would be 50% of the OEM weight. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/rolleyes.gif

Bet you can figure that one out all by yourself.

Have Fun http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif
David

[zracre]

The car was an ITB Scirocco in CENDIV...his throttle body was stock but he replaced the butterfly hardware with shorter screws...i guess when the car was going back together when he built it that seemed logical...i know the protest was a reach but it held up and he lost his finishing positions and points etc...

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Evan Darling
ITA Integra

[racer14itc]

Originally posted by ddewhurst:
***If they did, it was only because they didn't read the rulebook well enough. Fasteners are "free" so you can replace the throttle butterfly screws with "shorter" ones legally.***

Mark, my thought was the same untill untill I re-read 17.1.4.D.1.a. "No venturi (including secondary or auxiliary) of any carburetor may be modifed in any way." Then I went to the glossary for the defination of venturi. COULD a coin be flipped on this glossary description? "A region of constriction in an air duct of a cabburetor in which, through the actions of incoming air flow, a reduced pressure is created to induce the inflow of fuel through one or more jets." Please follow up on this screw deal question.


***As for the flywheel, how much weight should one expect to save when "refinishing" is performed? :-)***

Gregg, lets see now. A good number for a OEM flywheel is 20 pounds. A flywheel liberated of 10 lbs would be 50% of the OEM weight. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/rolleyes.gif

Bet you can figure that one out all by yourself.

Have Fun http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif
David




The fact that the glossary also has a definition for "throttle butterfly" tells me a throttle butterfly is separate from a venturi.

I would (and did) replace the throttle butterfly screws on my ITC Scirocco, and felt fully comfortable doing so based on the written rule.

Evan, the Scirocco driver should have appealed. And, just because one driver was DQ'd in the past for something doesn't make it cast in stone for the future. At the ARRC in the late 90's, one of the podium ITC finishers was DQ'd for removing the primary throttle body insert on his CIS throttle body. The following year I was protested for doing the same thing at the SIC, and was DQ'd. But I appealed, with factory documentation in hand that showed that the insert in question was indeed only there for the operation of the emissions equipment (it was called a vacuum amplifier for the EGR system). The DQ was overturned on appeal.

VW ITC racers would probably still continue to be DQ'd for it if I hadn't been protested, DQ'd, and then successfully appealed it.

I suspect someone has appealed a "throttle butterfly screws" DQ and had it overturned, I just don't know of it.

MC


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Mark Coffin
#14 GP BSI Racing/Action Digital/Airborn Coatings/Krispy Kreme VW Scirocco

[Andy Bettencourt]

It would depends on what the function of the screw was. If it was an adjuster, it most certainly is NOT a fastener.

Also, a legal mod CAN NOT facilitate a illegal mod. If your mod in any way changes the performance or operation of the TB, then it IS illegal.

And one would easily surmise that it wouldn't be changed if it didn't provide a performance upgrade.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[racer14itc]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt:
It would depends on what the function of the screw was. If it was an adjuster, it most certainly is NOT a fastener.

Also, a legal mod CAN NOT facilitate a illegal mod. If your mod in any way changes the performance or operation of the TB, then it IS illegal.

And one would easily surmise that it wouldn't be changed if it didn't provide a performance upgrade.

AB



Andy,

Absolutely, it was a performance enhancing mod. So was the removal of the TB insert. By your logic, using +.040 pistons would be illegal because it enhances the performance of the engine, right? http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/biggrin.gif

If I replace the TB screws WITHOUT modifying or otherwise altering the throttle body, the throttle plates or shaft then it's OK in my (rule)book.

MC

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Mark Coffin
#14 GP BSI Racing/Action Digital/Airborn Coatings/Krispy Kreme VW Scirocco

[This message has been edited by racer14itc (edited April 27, 2005).]

[ddewhurst]

***The car was an ITB Scirocco in CENDIV***

Evan, how did this protest your talking about occure. A competitior, some sort of random tech or what ?

Mark, I like your rule conclusion. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/biggrin.gif

Have Fun http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif
David

[This message has been edited by ddewhurst (edited April 27, 2005).]

[zracre]

It was Gary Tyssen and he won itb...protested by a Volvo driver...tore down intake check cam etc...came up with non stock components/modified in the throttle body...just shortened screws...no porting or anything like that...

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Evan Darling
ITA Integra

[lateapex911]

That's amazing...the screws must have been listed on the protest form. (Pretty complete and picky protest) How did the scrutineers know they were shortened? Did they procure some known stock versions from VW to compare?

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[zracre]

Im not sure the rest of the details..i will try to contact Gary and find out...I think one of the officials was a driver of the Volvo...

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Evan Darling
ITA Integra

[ITANorm]

Originally posted by zracre:
Im not sure the rest of the details..i will try to contact Gary and find out...I think one of the officials was a driver of the Volvo...




Well, gosh knows, there's no conflict of interest there! If the "official" had anything to do with the decision, the whole decision was tainted, and therefore invalid.

[Tak]

There was an ITC corolla in SFR (#14 I think) that was DQ'd from a PCRRC in the mid-late 90's for modified throttle butterfly screws (ground down flush). DQ overturned on appeal. Fasteners ARE free.

Tak

[Geo]

Originally posted by Tak:
There was an ITC corolla in SFR (#14 I think) that was DQ'd from a PCRRC in the mid-late 90's for modified throttle butterfly screws (ground down flush). DQ overturned on appeal. Fasteners ARE free.

Tak

Well.... I don't know if the wording has been changed, but I'd be circumspect about this. They are not free per se, but they may be replaced with similar items that perform the same fastening function.

I could see plenty of room for argument there.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com