brake rotors

[troyt]

Are the drilled/slotted OE size front brake rotors now available for the 240z ITS legal?

[pgipson]

Are the stock rotors drilled and /or slotted?

[Knestis]

No, and no.

[x-ring]

Kirk's right, they're not legal.

Until last year you had to use Nissan OEM rotors, now aftermarket replacements are allowed if they are an exact match of the OEM part.

------------------
Ty Till
#16 ITS
Rocky Mountain Division

[Tom Donnelly]

Are you sure aftermarket rotors were illegal? Is it just me or is everyone under the impression that you can only by replacement parts from the original maufacturer? If that were true, all IT cars I've seen were illegal.

Tom

[Knestis]

The rule has never said that we can use non-OE aftermarket brake rotors but we've pretty much ignored this issue, getting them from Autozone or wherever rather than the dealer. All the new rule does is recognize that practice and make it legal.

K

[Tom Donnelly]

I don't have an earlier GCR/ITCS but didn't the rule say OEM or aftermarket equivalent? It seems thats been in effect since the 90's. I'm not trying to argue with you Kirk, its just my memory failing somewhere.

Is it that the spec line listed the OEM part and that supercedes the GCR?

Thanks,
Tom

[Andy Bettencourt]

We just did special wording for the 2005 GCR. Never been in there AFAI remember.

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[DavidM]

I hate to start a nitpick the rule thread, but what constitutes an "exact match"? Is it just outer dimensions? What about weight? I can't imagine there being a lot of difference in weight between various manufacturers rotors, but a couple ounces of unsprung mass at each wheel is still a couple ounces. It would suck if somebody protested you because of your shiny new brembo replacement rotors and won because they weighed a fraction less than stock rotors.

David

[ddewhurst]

OEM, Hummmmmmm

Where in the GCR/ITCS is a definition given for OEM ? Yes, I understand Original Equipment Manufacture. There are many OEM companys in the world & they don't all manufacture cars. Do all ITCS speced car manufacturs manufacture their own brake rotors/drums ? I dought if they do.

So back to the begining, where is a written definition of OEM relative to the SCCA.

I worked for an OEM company for 12 years & we didn't manufacture cars.

Have Fun http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif
David

[Andy Bettencourt]

This rule is clear. The intent is even written. Let's get back to washerbottles.

http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/frown.gif

AB

[planet6racing]

And I thought OEM stood for "Overtly Excluding Mazdas!"

Boy, have I been wrong! http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/biggrin.gif

------------------
Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

[ddewhurst]

***This rule is clear. The intent is even written.***

Andy, you went half way now finish with what you call "the intent is even written"" by telling us all who care where the intent is written.

Have Fun http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif
David

ps: I don't care to talk about washer bottles. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

[troyt]

Wow, that was fun. Glad I asked the question, cuz swithching form vintage to SCCA is sure an education.
Thanks for the replies.
Troy

[Ron Earp]

You haven't seen fun yet! Just wait unitl you ask about washer bottles, OEM wiring harnesses, or ECUs - then it gets fun!

R

------------------
Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey ITS
1/2 a 260Z ITS

[Banzai240]

Originally posted by ddewhurst:
http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif[/img]
David


Guys.... if you aren't going to READ the ITCS, then why do we even bother writing this stuff down???


2005 ITCS 17.1.4.C Specifications

Stock replacement parts may be obtained from sources other than the manufacturer provided they are the exact equivalent of the original parts. The intent of this rule is to allow the competitor to obtain replacement parts from standard industry outlets, e.g., auto-parts distributors, rather than from the manufacturer. It is not intended to allow parts that do not meet all the dimensional and material specifications of new parts from the manufacturer.



------------------
Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX
http://home.comcast.net/~djjordan/Web/DJ_AV1.jpg

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by ddewhurst:
[B]***This rule is clear. The intent is even written.***

Andy, you went half way now finish with what you call "the intent is even written"" by telling us all who care where the intent is written.

Have Fun http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif
David
[B]

IN THE RULEBOOK - UNDER THE RULE.

http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/rolleyes.gif

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[ddewhurst]

Andy, I would presume your next position with the SCCA will be on the CRB. You have all the political leadership qualities required. You answer questions just as questions are answered in Fastrack. Your answers to questions leave the customer http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/confused.gif

Keep up the good work.
David

[Andy Bettencourt]

Wow David, I am really not sure what you want from me. You asked were the intent was writen, I told you. Did you READ Darin's post? From the 2005 GCR:

"The intent of this rule is to allow the competitor to obtain replacement parts from standard industry outlets, e.g., auto-parts distributors, rather than from the manufacturer. It is not intended to allow parts that do not meet all the dimensional and material specifications of new parts from the manufacturer."

What more do you want? Me thinks you made a big mistake by not reading the rulebook.

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[This message has been edited by Andy Bettencourt (edited April 09, 2005).]

[Greg Amy]

But Andy, what's the intent of the rule?? If you'd only be more clear I think we'd understand better...

[Andy Bettencourt]

Ahhhh, the INTENT! Now I get it.

http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[badal]

ddewhurst, I'm not sure why you need Andy to quote you the GCR.
Interpretations, OK. Proposed changes, OK. Argue all you want about them with him. I know I do. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

But stuff that is right there? C'mon.

------------------
"Bad" Al Bell
ITC #3 Datsun 510
DC Region MARRS Series

[ddewhurst]

***Me thinks you made a big mistake by not reading the rulebook.***

***But stuff that is right there? C'mon.***

Let's see now. Before the new parts rule. Mazda continously inflated front rotors to $96 each 3 years ago. Real Brembo front rotors $30 each. Now let me think a bit. With Brembo rotors which wear equal to or longer than Mazda rotors I save $132 per set. Decision, decisions & more decisions. C'mon, me read the rules. If every car with non speced parts were put in a DQ'ed line at tech how long do ya think the line would be?

Bill, does that plastic bend ?

Have Fun http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif
David

[B Schley]

My 2 cents is why don't they just allow slotted and drilled? Whats the difference? I would prefer brakes upgrades too. I know its a matter of trying to keep costs down, but isn't it also a safety issue? Slotted and drilled would help the cooling, and I'd feel more comfortable with a set of Brembo calipers and rotors instead of OEM Honda brakes, or the like, going into Canada corner at Road America I'd be curious what the logic is.
--Bill

[This message has been edited by B Schley (edited April 12, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by B Schley (edited April 12, 2005).]

[planet6racing]

Umm, David, can I make sure you are clear on something:

Alternate parts are expressly ALLOWED in the GCR now, as long as they are the same size/spec as the OEM parts.

As for the plastic, it bends, but then it bounces back!!

------------------
Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

[planet6racing]

One other thing:

Bill, while I agree that there is much argument about the effects of slotted/drilled rotors and cooling, I point to the following two things to say that drilled rotors are not the way to go:

1) http://www.teamscr.com/rotors.html - Written by James Walker Jr, a brake systems engineer for Bosch. Feel free to read his other articles. If anyone knows anything about brakes, it's James!

2) NASCAR, F1, etc. I have yet to see one of the major race teams run drilled rotors. If it truly helped with cooling, you'd expect to see it on every car at the short tracks in NASCAR. Not so. The only place that I have seen it is on Motorcycles, because the remaining mass is still enough for the thermal energy.

------------------
Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

[B Schley]

planet 6 Bill-
Interesting stuff. I understand his point on drilled rotors. I still don't think it would be bad if we were allowed to upgrade brake systems to after market units like Brembo, Baer etc. Lets face it, the best way to cool is with ducts.
--Bill

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by B Schley:
planet 6 Bill-
Interesting stuff. I understand his point on drilled rotors. I still don't think it would be bad if we were allowed to upgrade brake systems to after market units like Brembo, Baer etc. Lets face it, the best way to cool is with ducts.
--Bill

I do. Big time dumb move, IMO...

If we allow that, then it will be REQUIRED for everyone....IF they want to keep up with the Jones....

A fantastic way to increase the costs of building a car.

Solution to 'inferior' brakes?? brake sooner. It's the same for everybody.



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[zracre]

i trust my brakes at sebring road atlanta etc, i have a honda and with proper maintenance and care they have never let me down...just spend the money on new rotors and use good pads, brake lines, a new master cylinder/calipers and fluids...these are IT cars not GT cars...
Evan Darling
ITA Integra

[Knestis]

Bigger brakes would certainly be an advantage over stock-sized brakes. Since there is nothing inherently unsafe about OE systems, the only motivation to change would be performance and as mentioned above - once someone had them, anyone who wanted to be competitive would need them, too. Money spent, status quo maintained, racers poorer, and those without the bucks further marginalized. No good can come of this.

K

[ddewhurst]

Umm, Bill H., can I make sure you are clear on something:


***Let's see now. Before the new parts rule.***

Before the new parts rule.

Before the new parts rule.

Before the new parts rule.

I think I read the Fastrack, GCR & Darin's post. Ya, it's clear.

Have Fun http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif
David

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by ddewhurst:
***Me thinks you made a big mistake by not reading the rulebook.***

***But stuff that is right there? C'mon.***

Let's see now. Before the new parts rule. Mazda continously inflated front rotors to $96 each 3 years ago. Real Brembo front rotors $30 each. Now let me think a bit. With Brembo rotors which wear equal to or longer than Mazda rotors I save $132 per set. Decision, decisions & more decisions. C'mon, me read the rules. If every car with non speced parts were put in a DQ'ed line at tech how long do ya think the line would be?

Bill, does that plastic bend ?

Have Fun http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif
David

And that is exactly why the new rule is in the book. And it is also why it's intent can't be monkeyed with because it is also stated.

As usual, I have no idea what your point is. You asked for the intent, It's in there.

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[planet6racing]

David:

Well, then, what are you arguing about? That was then, this is now! Who cares what was done in the past? http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

Come on! The first race is only 1.5 weeks away. Are you going to be there? Do you have your car converted to full IT prep?

I'll see you at the track (hopefully in the rearview!).

------------------
Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by planet6racing:
David:

Well, then, what are you arguing about? That was then, this is now! Who cares what was done in the past? http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

Come on! The first race is only 1.5 weeks away. Are you going to be there? Do you have your car converted to full IT prep?

I'll see you at the track (hopefully in the rearview!).



http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

How's that steering wheel disconnect doing Bill? if you keep the wheel on you should have no problem keeping the Dewhurst Mazda behind you as he seems to be busy with the rulebook... http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[ddewhurst]

Jake, back under the rock. While some people are busy working on steering wheel attachment lessons & other things like worrying about whose behind them the RX-7 driver is readying the car to continue running faster laps that the plastic car.

He He Heeeeeee http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif
David