Arm Restraints with a Passengers Seat?

[disquek]

I setup a Kirkey Intermediate seat to be used a passengers seat. The install includes a seat back brace. I also installed a new GForce 5 point harness for the passenger. All of this is easily removable. It's for DE and practice days only.

My question is, do I have to install a window net on the passengers side, or can I just equip the passenger with arm restraints?

Thanks!
-Kyle

[Banzai240]

Originally posted by disquek:
My question is, do I have to install a window net on the passengers side, or can I just equip the passenger with arm restraints?

Thanks!
-Kyle

Well, I'm pretty sure it's not directly addressed in the rules, but from a pragmatic standpoint, I'd put in the window net... Doesn't do any good to restrain the passenger's hands/arms if their head is going to go out the window... http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/eek.gif



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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX
http://home.comcast.net/~djjordan/Web/DJ_AV1.jpg

[dave parker]

Kyle
I think it all depends on how brave/stupid the person sitting in the passenger seat is.

cheers
dave parker
wdcr ITC#97

[disquek]

Wouldn't you be just as safe in the passengers seat with arm restraints as you are being the driver of an open top car with arm restraints?

Most likely, I will be the passenger. If it's a really bad idea to omit the window net, regardless of whether it passes tech, I'll add one. It's just a lot of work to add the window net for a setup that will be used very infrequently. If arm restraints makes the setup reasonable, I'd like to put the work into go-fast stuff.

Thanks for the help!

-Kyle

[Knestis]

You have to consider the context that you'll likely find yourself in with this situation...

Since you can't carry a passenger in an SCCA-sanctioned racing event, the point is moot. If you are carrying a passenger in HPDE settings (non-SCCA), you have to follow their rules - many of which require the window to be fully rolled down and do NOT speak to either nets or restraints.

If you are talking about SCCA's new HPDE-like thing, i don't know what the answer is...

K

[disquek]

Originally posted by Knestis:
Since you can't carry a passenger in an SCCA-sanctioned racing event, the point is moot.

Can you have a passenger at an SCCA club racing drivers school?

-Kyle

[Matt Rowe]

Originally posted by Knestis:
If you are talking about SCCA's new HPDE-like thing, i don't know what the answer is...

K

For the new SCCA Performance Driving Experience (PDE) program the following is taken from the rulebook.

If the car is "street legal" meaning it is registered and inspected than window net/arm restraint requirements are waived for PDE's. If the car is not street legal to carry a passenger the safety equipment must provide the same protection as the driver has. So yes a window net would be required.

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~Matt Rowe
ITA Shelby Charger
MARRS #96

[JohnRW]

Originally posted by Knestis:
Since you can't carry a passenger in an SCCA-sanctioned racing event, the point is moot.

Not so fast there, Pilgrim...

While not specifically addressed in the GCR, IIRC there has been mention in previous editions of the "SCCA Operations Manual" (aka Ops Manual) that allowed it, at least for race licensing schools.

My memory (fuzzy place) of the specifics aren't good, but I sorta remember that it is OK to transport a second helmet & body around during test days and race schools. Now...the specifics of who/what/where are necessary details that I can't provide right now.

That said...if it is allowed...put the damn window net in and avoid 1.) The inevitable debate with Grid about restraints vs. nets and 2.) Filling the F&C radio net with endless chatter about Car #XX who doesn't have his window net up on the passenger side.

[This message has been edited by JohnRW (edited March 11, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by JohnRW (edited March 11, 2005).]

[mgyip]

According to the DC Region's Sups for Spring Drivers' School:

Dual Instruction
Dual instruction will be allowed in both student and instructor cars as long as the passenger is afforded the same degree of protection as the driver, as specified in the GCR (including window net).

[Banzai240]

Originally posted by Knestis:
You have to consider the context that you'll likely find yourself in with this situation...K

Here is the "context" of the situation as I see it....

Not-so-experienced driver... driving faster than experience to this point warrents.... Pushing things further than ever before... On the track with same...

I tend not to worry about context when applying common sense...

I'm glad that rule mentioned above (dual instruction) is there to keep people from "thinking" that they know what is safe...

Speaking as someone who has whitnessed more than one horrific "Driver's School" crash...



------------------
Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX
http://home.comcast.net/~djjordan/Web/DJ_AV1.jpg

[mgyip]

But to quote the instructors at Drivers' School "We're may be crazy but we're not THAT CRAZY as to ride with any of YOU (students)".

DC Region has had the Dual Instruction verbiage for many years although I don't think I've ever seen a car prepared for dual instruction nor have I seen an instructor that's daring (or foolish) enough to actually get into a student's racecar with the student driving.

[dave parker]

Matthew
I rode with one of my students for two sessions at the fall school two years ago. The neon she rented had racing seat, 5 point belts and window net on the passenger side.
It was her first school, first time on a track, first time in a racecar. A total rookie.

She only scared me once. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif
When we left the grid......
cheers
dave parker
wdcr ITC#97

[gsbaker]

Originally posted by mgyip:
...nor have I seen an instructor that's daring (or foolish) enough to actually get into a student's racecar with the student driving.

We all understand, but that's a shame. The best way to learn is for the instructor to be sitting next to the student.

I'll never forget when my first HPDE instructor (multiple Le Mans winner) said, "I'll tell you when to brake ... brake, 'brake, BRAKE!.

G

[disquek]

Thanks for the feedback. It sounds like my idea of using arm restraints won't fly.

Since I'm now under some serious time contraints, does anyone know of a clever way to install a window net without welding? Could 1.5" muffler clamps be used as attachment points for the bars?

-Kyle