14/15 x 6 Wheels

[grjones1]

I hate to throw another wrinkle in this raisin, but has anyone been able to find 14 or 15 x 6 wheels under $200.00 each? Plenty of 14/15 x 6.5, but no 6.0s!

GRJ

[ShelbyRacer]

There are quite a few OEM wheels that are that size...


------------------
Matt Green
"Ain't nothin' improved about Improved Touring..."

[Bill Miller]

GRJ,

I don't know about brand-new wheels, but I can probably get you at least 20 14x6, 4x100 wheels for $25-$50 each, but the end of tomorrow. Don't know if they're going to be ultra-sexy, 9# race wheels, but every ITB VW ran them, prior to this year. Also, I think new Panasports are only ~$175/ea.

BTW, I don't think I've ever seen a 14x6.5 wheel. That's not to say they don't exist, just that I've never seen one.

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[grjones1]

Originally posted by ShelbyRacer:
There are quite a few OEM wheels that are that size...



None that fit my car, Matt, and none for a friend's C Rabbit. That we cand find. Point here is, yet another rule that helps a few people in class but not all. And I respectfully submit, if the rulemakers had done a little homework they would have found 6.5's were readily available.

GRJ

[grjones1]

Originally posted by Bill Miller:
GRJ,

I don't know about brand-new wheels, but I can probably get you at least 20 14x6, 4x100 wheels for $25-$50 each, but the end of tomorrow. Don't know if they're going to be ultra-sexy, 9# race wheels, but every ITB VW ran them, prior to this year. Also, I think new Panasports are only ~$175/ea.

BTW, I don't think I've ever seen a 14x6.5 wheel. That's not to say they don't exist, just that I've never seen one.


Bill the info I have says no 14 x 6s, and he's been looking all winter. But if you can identify a source he and I would appreciate it. BTW, the 15 x 6.5's are on Tire Rack.
It may be the 15 x 6's he's having trouble with.

Thanks,
GRJ



[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited March 06, 2005).]

[Knestis]

Mr. Jones beat me to this topic by about an hour.

I have a garage full of OE VW alloys (16.5 pounds each) but if light wheels were available, the 25# of rotating mass that might be saved could be a meaningful amount.

The only argument to use 15x6s at this point would be if light wheels could be found more cheaply but it becomes a matter of finding them "at all" it looks like.

I look at the affordable 14x7 Team Dynamics with envy. Maybe the answer is to standardize the wheel rule for all IT classes.

Kirk (who is practicing what pols do so well by saying "standardize the wheel rule" rather than "let me use 7-inch wheels.") http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

[grjones1]

Originally posted by Knestis:
Mr. Jones beat me to this topic by about an hour.

I have a garage full of OE VW alloys (16.5 pounds each) but if light wheels were available, the 25# of rotating mass that might be saved could be a meaningful amount.

The only argument to use 15x6s at this point would be if light wheels could be found more cheaply but it becomes a matter of finding them "at all" it looks like.

I look at the affordable 14x7 Team Dynamics with envy. Maybe the answer is to standardize the wheel rule for all IT classes.

Kirk (who is practicing what pols do so well by saying "standardize the wheel rule" rather than "let me use 7-inch wheels.") http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

Thanks Kirk for making my point much better than I did.
GRJ

[ShelbyRacer]

Originally posted by grjones1:
None that fit my car, Matt, and none for a friend's C Rabbit. That we cand find. Point here is, yet another rule that helps a few people in class but not all. And I respectfully submit, if the rulemakers had done a little homework they would have found 6.5's were readily available.


Well, on the Rabbit thing, look for any 4x100 15" wheels from Chrysler in 84, 85, and 86 (or even later, but a few are 6.5 wide). MOST of the Chrysler 15" stuff from the 80's was 6" wide, and available in 4 on 100mm and 5 on 100mm patterns.

Granted, both you and Kirk are right that most of those wheels weigh about 16-18lbs each, but there are ways of dealing with that...

I will certainly back you guys up on the point of no LIGHTWEIGHT 15x6 wheels, but there are options beyond that.

GRJ- What car do you run again? Was it a Fiesta/Festiva? Are they 4 on 100 or 4 on 4.25?



------------------
Matt Green
"Ain't nothin' improved about Improved Touring..."

[Jake]

14x6.5 were common on E30 BMW's.

15x6, 4x100 wheels are a dime a dozen! - most gen 3 Acura Integra's came with that size. Also the 99-00 Civic Si. So if you can find someone with one of those that decided to get aftermarket wheels (I think that would be about 95% of them) you got yerself a cheap set!

[grjones1]

Originally posted by ShelbyRacer:

GRJ- What car do you run again? Was it a Fiesta/Festiva? Are they 4 on 100 or 4 on 4.25?



'79 Fiesta. 4 on 4.25.
Thanks, Matt.
GRJ

[grjones1]

Originally posted by Jake:
14x6.5 were common on E30 BMW's.

15x6, 4x100 wheels are a dime a dozen! - most gen 3 Acura Integra's came with that size. Also the 99-00 Civic Si. So if you can find someone with one of those that decided to get aftermarket wheels (I think that would be about 95% of them) you got yerself a cheap set!

Jake, I don't think the the Acura/Honda or BMW bolt patterns will fit the VW or the Fiesta, And offsets may really be a problem, and of course 6.5's are illegal, but thanks for the info.

GRJ

[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited March 06, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited March 06, 2005).]

[Catch22]

No need to allow B and C to go up to 7" wide. That IS a performance thing and a whole bunch of people (and I'm one of them) would have to liquidate everything they have and buy new wheels.

Not a good idea. Count me as a "nay" on that one.

And 14x6/15x6 in 4x100 aren't hard to find at all. Not even light ones.
Kirk... Try some OEM 14x6 Miata wheels. They are out there by the thousands, some as light as 10lbs each.
There are also bunches of oem Honda wheels in 15x6, most are 4x100.
VW
BMW

There are LOTS of 6" wide options out there in 4x100, which is arguably the most common bolt pattern in IT.

George, at the risk of flipping your switch yet again... You drive a Fiesta. That means, and you should know this, that your choices of most everything are going to be more limited than the rest of us. You simply can't expect the ITAC or the Comp Board to say things like "Well, we'd like to change this rule, but it won't help the Fiesta guys at all so we shouldn't do it."

As I've said before, the new rule doesn't help me one bit because I have to run 13's due to gearing. But I still think its a great idea.
More options, without changing the competitiveness of what people already have (ie: not changing the width rules), is always a good idea. But these things can't always help EVERYBODY.

Go ahead George... I know its coming...

------------------
#22 ITC Honda Civic
3rd Place 2004 ARRC
1st Place 2004 ARRC Enduro
www.motorpride.com/Catch22 (http://www.motorpride.com/Catch22)

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by grjones1:
[quote] Point here is, yet another rule that helps a few people in class but not all. And I respectfully submit, if the rulemakers had done a little homework they would have found 6.5's were readily available.

GRJ



Question:
Did you submit a written opinion/comment during the commentary period before the rule was enacted? I seem to remember a lot of discussion, and this may have been mentioned, but I don't recall it. But...the bottom line is, was it brought to the ITACs opinion in writing?

Comment:
The rule per se has not treated you unfairly as it hasn't provided other models with a significant or unreasonable competitive advantage while denying you. Granted, it might have made racing more affordable for some more than others, but thats how it goes...we choose our horses and live with the chioce, for better or worse.



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[philstireservice]

And just to add another thorn into this.....
try and find "forged wheels" not "cast".....

------------------
Phil Phillips
2004 Honda Challenge H3
NASA ECHC CHAMPION

www.philstireservice.com

[RSTPerformance]

Here are several 14X6 wheels that are 4X100. Perfect for IT racing... they are cheap!

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/f...-100*9-100&rw=6 (http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findWheelsBySize.do?wd=14&bp=4-100*9-100&rw=6)

Here is what comes up for the 15x6 wheels. I wouldn't go for the steel wheel but the other one looks perfect for IT, and its cheap!

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/f...-100*9-100&rw=6 (http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findWheelsBySize.do?wd=15&bp=4-100*9-100&rw=6)


Stephen

[Joe Harlan]

Who ever said racing wheels should be cheap?

[RSTPerformance]

Originally posted by Joe Harlan:
Who ever said racing wheels should be cheap?

True, but he was just asking for wheels under $200.00 implying that he had already found expensive wheels.

My Konig wheels I purchased are 14x6 and $53.00 each new. They only weigh in around 11.5lbs making them very light for the price! I love them and I have never bent any of them. IT racing should be cheap, it's amatuer, and REGIONAL at that!

Stephen

PS: I think the intention of the rule was just to allow people that no longer had wheels available to them to have other options that gave very minimal competition advantage. I think they intentionally made the rules to only allow 6" wide so people would NOT go out and buy all new wheels because the gains would be very minimal if any. I think the rule should stay exactly the way it is.

[Joe Harlan]

IT racing should be cheap, it's amatuer, and REGIONAL at that!


True but when you drive a one off car everything will cost more. If cheap where what it was all about them spec small block chevy would be the only class in SCCA... http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

"You can please some of the people some of the time and most of the people most of the time but somebody is always gonna be willing to kick yer butt everytime"

[gran racing]

If the rules opened the wheels up to 6.5”, many people would perceive that they now need to go out and get the 0.5” wider rims. If you open it up to 7” wide rims, 90% of ITB drivers would feel like they need to get them as well. The current rule as written is great. It allows people to increase their wheel size to allow more choices for the often hard to find rim sizes. I was very fortunate that Jake F. found me some 13x6 rims a while ago on eBay because I found them tough to find.

While I feel your pain in trying to locate hard to find parts, as previously said, we do choose the cars we race. Because my prelude is pretty uncommon, it is a real PITA to find stuff for it! As frustrated as I get, I know that I put myself in that position.


------------------
Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[mgyip]

Originally posted by grjones1:
I don't think the the Acura/Honda or BMW bolt patterns will fit the VW or the Fiesta, And offsets may really be a problem

Honda and BMW wheels WILL bolt onto the Fiesta provided it has a 4x100 bolt pattern. Offset notwithstanding, the only area of concern is the hub size. Honda uses a smaller hub than VW which means that while it's possible to bolt-on a Honda wheel onto a VW, it's a bit more difficult to remove said Honda wheel (ask me how I know).

That having been said, 14x6 is one of the more common FWD wheel sizes for compact cars. From your tales of woe, I can only assume that the Ford Fiesta has some extremely odd offset.

I won't dig too deep into the "racing wheels are too expensive" discussion but I will say that with the inclusion of 15" rims in ITA, I'll STILL stick with my 14x7s. 15s would be nice but I can't justify spending the money b/c I already own the 14x7s and they work just fine.

[joeg]

A FIESTA (as opposed to a FESTIVA) uses a 4X108 pattern; a Honda pattern will not fit.

Cheers.

[mgyip]

Originally posted by joeg:
A FIESTA (as opposed to a FESTIVA) uses a 4X108 pattern; a Honda pattern will not fit.


Thank you - I stand corrected.

[grjones1]

Originally posted by Catch22:
Actually Catch,I have no intention of changing my wheels we're fine like we are. My Rabbit buddy was the one complaining he couldn't find 15 x 6's.

But it is really strange that the people who tell me if a rule doesn't apply equally across the board, the rule shouldn't exist are now the same people telling me if I can't find wheels for my car to take advantage of the new rule, that's too bad. Funny how the worm turns when someone else is being used as the bait.

GRJ

[grjones1]

Originally posted by RSTPerformance:

Here are several 14X6 wheels that are 4X100. Perfect for IT racing... they are cheap!
4-100*9-100&rw=6[/URL]
Stephen

Thanks Stephen, I'll pass it on. Is that 4 x 100 a Rabbit bolt pattern? Edit: Sorry, that has been confirmed already. Your assistance has been appreciated.

As far as the Fiesta goes, as long as Hoosier or Toyo keep making 13 x 195/60's, I'll be fine.

GRJ

[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited March 07, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited March 07, 2005).]

[Catch22]

Originally posted by grjones1:
But it is really strange that the people who tell me if a rule doesn't apply equally across the board, the rule shouldn't exist are now the same people telling me if I can't find wheels for my car to take advantage of the new rule, that's too bad. Funny how the worm turns when someone else is being used as the bait.

Well, its hard to make all rules apply to everyone all the time, but in cases where performance enhancement is a factor it should at least be attempted.

In this case, its a convenience and cost thing, not a performance thing. An ITC car with 14x6 wheels isn't typically going to perform any better than it did on 13x6 wheels, and very often its going to perform worse with a heavier wheel/tire package and a larger diameter.
BUT... Its great that the option is there. There are alot more 14 and 15" choices out there than there are 13" choices.

So in this case George, I think it is, and was always viewed as a convenience item. NOT a performance item.
Theres a big difference between the two in my book.



------------------
#22 ITC Honda Civic
3rd Place 2004 ARRC
1st Place 2004 ARRC Enduro
www.motorpride.com/Catch22 (http://www.motorpride.com/Catch22)

[Joe Harlan]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I can't find wheels for my car to take advantage of the new rule, that's too bad.</font>

The facts are you can get wheels to take advantage of the new rule, You choose not too spend the money. I can get any wheel in any offset and width you could ever want. The rule can be applied equally it just cost different for cars of low popularity and nobody is at fault for your choice of what you want to drive.

[grjones1]

Originally posted by Catch22:
Well, its hard to make all rules apply to everyone all the time, but in cases where performance enhancement is a factor it should at least be attempted.


You know, as much as it pains me I can't help but agree with both you and Joe on this one.

But it does seem to me that the new wheel rule does kind of fly in the face of the "we're headed for Production" and "we have to keep costs down" and "we have to have rules that apply equally across the board" arguments whenever someone (except for a select few) asks for a reasonable change. Anyway, my friend will have a source for his wheels and I'll keep my old Panasports and we'll do fine. Thanks again.

GRJ

[psykokid]

Originally posted by joeg:
A FIESTA (as opposed to a FESTIVA) uses a 4X108 pattern; a Honda pattern will not fit.

Cheers.

most 4 lug audi's come with a 4x108 bolt pattern, another avenue to check for wheels.

[Banzai240]

I tried typing "4x108" into Google and it returns a good number of wheel suppliers for this bolt pattern... Apparently a pretty popular Ford bolt pattern...

Might be worth a try...



------------------
Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX
http://home.comcast.net/~djjordan/Web/DJ_AV1.jpg

[RSTPerformance]

Originally posted by grjones1:
Thanks Stephen, I'll pass it on. Is that 4 x 100 a Rabbit bolt pattern? Edit: Sorry, that has been confirmed already. Your assistance has been appreciated.

GRJ



No problem, that's what these forums are all about.... but then again most of the time we all just argue. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

The 4 * 108 bolt pattern is the same as all the Audi 4000 quattros , plus the ITA audi coupe listed in the GCR plus all the 90 style Audis from the late 80's into the early 90's. Lot's and Lots of Audis have the 4 x 108 pattern! and yes so do tons of Fords including the Focus one of Fords newer more popular cars. These should be easy to find. go to the same link I sent before and you can search on discount tire direct for them. My computer won't let me access it today for some reason?

Stephen

[RSTPerformance]

Originally posted by RSTPerformance:
Go to the same link I sent before and you can search on discount tire direct for them. My computer won't let me access it today for some reason?

Stephen

I go it to work.... and boy now I do realize that the limiting to 6" does stink!

only 2 14" x 6" (4 x 108) But nothing in the 6.5" or 7" widths either.
http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findWheelsBySize.do?wd=14&bp=4-108*4-4.25&rw=6 ://http://www.discounttiredirect.com/d...08*4-4.25&rw=6 (http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findWheelsBySize.do?wd=14&bp=4-108*4-4.25&rw=6)

and for the 15" x 6" only a steel wheel is available.
http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findWheelsBySize.do?wd=15&bp=4-108*4-4.25&rw=6 ://http://www.discounttiredirect.com/d...08*4-4.25&rw=6 (http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findWheelsBySize.do?wd=15&bp=4-108*4-4.25&rw=6)

but if you go up to 6.5" you get 18 matches! yikes that does stink for anyone with the 4 x 108 pattern!
http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findWheelsBySize.do?wd=15&bp=4-108*4-4.25&rw =6.5://http://www.discounttiredirect.com/d...*4-4.25&rw =6.5 (http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findWheelsBySize.do?wd=15&bp=4-108*4-4.25&rw=6.5)

well now I have given everyone data that will support or not support your argument.... Not sure if I should have done this since before this post I liked the current rule http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/frown.gif now I don't know what to think!

Stephen



[This message has been edited by RSTPerformance (edited March 09, 2005).]

[eMKay]

Did you try PepBoys? I got a set of 14x6 4x100/4x108 (dual bolt pattern) for my BMW on order right now, they even have them in gunmetal finish http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif $50 each (slight discount, I know the manager retail is $60) I don't know the brand, but who cares? They are cheap and reasonably light (13lbs I think)

[This message has been edited by eMKay (edited March 09, 2005).]

[Joe Harlan]

That's the deal with net shopping. The stuff you find (discount tire,tire rack) is not always all that a manufacture offers it is what those companies stock. If you find a wheel you like go to the manufacture site and inquire of them if they will custom drill. I have had very good luck with this in the past. I do suggest not telling them you want them for racing.(some get real shakey on this)

[Ron]

Hey RSTP, what offsets are available for the cheap rims that you run. I could use a set for my ITB mustang but I need a 3 inch offset and those look like front wheel drive rims.

Ron Sattele