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stefand1234
06-15-2004, 05:25 PM
i know the audi rs6 uses them (far from IT) and i was thinking of using carbon fiber on the roof and doors can i do it and if not why?

dickita15
06-15-2004, 05:37 PM
while it is a cool idea you can not as the gcr specs the material for both these aplications. guage panels however would look good.
dick

Geo
06-15-2004, 07:11 PM
Dude, you have GOT to get a GCR. Contrary to at least semi-popular opinion, the rulebook is your friend. It tells you everything you can do.

Furthermore, if you are still building a 944, you should spend the $100 to buy Jon Milledge's "ITS Organizer." It's worth the money.


------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

apr67
06-15-2004, 10:52 PM
Carbon fiber is a nasty material, and I personally think you don't want it anywhere near your body. If it gets into your body it is very hard to get out and your body just creates scar tissue around the CF splinters. Forever.

Its bad stuff.

ITSRX7
06-16-2004, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by apr67:
Carbon fiber is a nasty material, and I personally think you don't want it anywhere near your body. If it gets into your body it is very hard to get out and your body just creates scar tissue around the CF splinters. Forever.

Its bad stuff.

So don't chew it. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

joeg
06-16-2004, 08:33 AM
Hell..it's no worse than using depleted Uranium for ballast...right?

racer_tim
06-16-2004, 11:44 AM
Don't waste your money on bling-bling crap. Remember it's a RACE CAR. While your at it, go ahead and wire the fluorescent lights on the bottom of your car, so it will be seen during the night enduro's.

Just kidding.



------------------
Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit (Bent)
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

06-16-2004, 10:30 PM
your not supposed to use depleted Uranium for ballast? I use it for interior illumination for night enduros.

stefand1234
06-17-2004, 12:32 AM
so i guess its a no go on CF i dident want "bling bling" i have maybe 13 old hoods (every year people come back and but new one and leave there old hoods) and racer_tim i dont know if you know what a "RACE CAR" should look like but i was at the Canadian Grand Prix and saw almost all of the F1 cars were CF maybe you should go and tell Michael Schumacher and Ferrari that you know more than them and they forgot the cool underglow HeHe also i am still building the car slow as all hell maybe next year(for this year my shop has twin S4 with ko4's lovly!)

JLawton
06-17-2004, 07:46 AM
Please, please re-read your comments before you post them. It drives me nuts to read them!! Maybe you should enter them in Word then do spell check??? Holly crap! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/eek.gif

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Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi

[This message has been edited by JLawton (edited June 17, 2004).]

TBreu007
06-19-2004, 02:34 PM
I have a carbon fiber passenger door panel, but I have the required aluminum behind the carbon fiber. Yes, it can be looked at as overkill or bling bling, but I and everyone else that has seen it says it adds a clean, finished look to the car.

A passenger door panel or gauge panel are about the only CF panels you can add in IT, and only if the stock door panel won't let the door close due to the cage.
Roof=illegal
door skins=illegal

[This message has been edited by TBreu007 (edited June 19, 2004).]

joeg
06-21-2004, 07:59 AM
Why not simply use that CF "decal" material?

You can do the hood, fenders, doors, etc.

Hey neat idea...I got to look into it myself...

ddewhurst
06-21-2004, 08:05 AM
Posted by TBreu007
***I have a carbon fiber passenger door panel, but I have the required aluminum behind the carbon fiber. Yes, it can be looked at as overkill or bling bling,
A passenger door panel or gauge panel are about the only CF panels you can add in IT, and only if the stock door panel won't let the door close due to the cage.***

Please help me with the rule that allows a CF door panel........

Have Fun http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David

ITSRX7
06-21-2004, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by ddewhurst:
Posted by TBreu007
***I have a carbon fiber passenger door panel, but I have the required aluminum behind the carbon fiber. Yes, it can be looked at as overkill or bling bling,
A passenger door panel or gauge panel are about the only CF panels you can add in IT, and only if the stock door panel won't let the door close due to the cage.***

Please help me with the rule that allows a CF door panel........

Have Fun http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David



David,

Re-read his post. He has the legal aluminum behind it - so he effectively has added a CF cover to his legal door panel.

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
FLATOUT Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

apr67
06-21-2004, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by ITSRX7:
David,

Re-read his post. He has the legal aluminum behind it - so he effectively has added a CF cover to his legal door panel.

AB



How is that legal?

lateapex911
06-21-2004, 12:36 PM
How is it NOT legal????

If he wants to put his old interior door panel over that, he could right?

Or are you suggesting that it doesn't say you CAN put anything in your interior, so therefor you can't?

(and even a rules nerd would probably look the other way over a CF skin that is redundant)

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

apr67
06-22-2004, 09:35 AM
Rule says you make make a door panel and specs the material. You may use either the oem door panel, or the spec'd replacement.

I can see that putting a sticker (CF looking) would be ok, because you can paint or plate anything, but this is a stretch.

Alan

Knestis
06-22-2004, 09:55 AM
I think it sets a bad precedent. The same stretched logic would let me put strips of stick-on vortex generators on the trailing edge of my roof and call them "graphics."

K

ITSRX7
06-22-2004, 09:56 AM
And the spec'd replacement material is there and legal. The CF is a 'cover' for asthetics only. What performance advantage could you argue was being made?

So stickers in the interior, camera mounts, communication infrastructure and anything comfort, convienence and decor-related is illegal? THAT is a stretch.

It's a cover on a legal component. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/rolleyes.gif Come on.

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

m glassburner
06-22-2004, 02:24 PM
Its like paint on your roll cage!! he he!By the book its not legal http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif Don't hit me.Or intake manifolds ceramic coated on the exterior only...just had to say that...

Geo
06-22-2004, 06:50 PM
The GCR doesn't say anywhere that you can put air in your tires either (let alone nitrogen).


------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

Quickshoe
06-22-2004, 07:50 PM
Just picking on you Andy...

Where does it say that stickers in the interior are okay? It doesn't say you can, so many would say you can't because of IIDSYCYC however;

ITCS 17.1.4.D.9.g "....other than to provide for the installation of required safety equipment or other authorized modifications, no other driver/passenger compartment alterations or gutting are permitted"

says you can't!

Further many of us would argue that the sticker is a competitive advantage as it is common knowledge that the more stickers the faster you are.

lateapex911
06-22-2004, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by ITSRX7:
?

...... THAT is a stretch.

It's a cover on a legal component. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/rolleyes.gif Come on.

AB



C'mon, Andy...its a sneaky way of putting ballast where you want it! You know what a high weight density CF has!


------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited June 23, 2004).]

TBreu007
06-23-2004, 12:44 AM
If I glued the funny papers to the outside of that aluminum door panel, would anyone argue its legality?
I hardly think that two layers of carbon fiber mat I made into a door panel is adding any structural rigidity and competitive advantage.

Knestis
06-23-2004, 09:28 AM
That's not the point. The GCR specifically says that it is not necessary to demonstrate a performance advantage of an illegal modification, only that it's not allowed.

This is the Internet so as I've pointed out often - not the real world - but the real issue is the "slippery slope." If something beyond the rules is allowed by post hoc interpretation and results in either (a) unintended consequences, or (B) some other incremental change that does produce a benefit. That process is detrimental to the category over the long haul.

Now, in the REAL world you do whatever the heck you want - but you asked here. If you don't get the answer you want, ignore it. If you are looking for validation to take to the real world, you are sadly mistaken: A web board opinion supporting what you want to do is no more valid than those telling you that you can't.

K

apr67
06-23-2004, 09:42 AM
Personally, I would not care if you covered the al with cf. But its not legal, and just saying it isn't a performance advantage doesn't change it's legality.

Camera mounts are allowed. The rules also say you can paint or plate anything, so painting the cage is allowed.

I would never put CF anywhere near my body, especially if it was only for 'bling bling' affect. And you stated it is for bling bling since you stated it doesn't provide a performance advantage.

Have a nice day.

http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

ddewhurst
06-23-2004, 03:05 PM
***It's a cover on a legal component. Come on.***

Andy, per ITCS rule 17.1.4.D. please specify the rule by number that allows CF cover over alum or CF as a cover over the OEM panel.

***The GCR doesn't say anywhere that you can put air in your tires either (let alone nitrogen).***

George, what was the OEM product used to inflate the tires when the car came from the factory ?

Are the two of you still part of the ITAC ?

Have Fun http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif
David

Geo
06-23-2004, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by ddewhurst:
George, what was the OEM product used to inflate the tires when the car came from the factory ?

It certainly wasn't nitrogen.


Originally posted by ddewhurst:
Are the two of you still part of the ITAC ?

Yep. So far we've managed to stay at least one step ahead of the pitchforks and torches. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif


------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

apr67
06-23-2004, 09:02 PM
air Noun.
A colorless, odorless, tasteless, gaseous mixture, mainly nitrogen (approximately 78 percent) and oxygen (approximately 21 percent) with lesser amounts of argon, carbon dioxide, hydrogen, neon, helium, and other gases.

TBreu007
06-24-2004, 02:04 AM
I still don't see your logic in that a carbon fiber sticker is a covering like paint (and legal) and an actual piece of carbon fiber covering something is illegal. I'll run it until someone files a petty protest and wins.

FWIW, carbon fiber isn't all that bad for you. Before working with it, I researched all I could on its effects on the human body. From what I found, it's no worse than regular old fiberglass. I was worried about lung damage if it was inhaled, but all I read says no special precautions are necessary...still a particle mask is a good idea if grinding or cutting it.
The body will build scar tissue around anything foreign...not just CF.

Geo
06-24-2004, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by apr67:
air Noun.
A colorless, odorless, tasteless, gaseous mixture, mainly nitrogen (approximately 78 percent) and oxygen (approximately 21 percent) with lesser amounts of argon, carbon dioxide, hydrogen, neon, helium, and other gases.

So how does this justify filling tires with nitrogen?


------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

its66
06-24-2004, 10:28 AM
I have been looking for years for OEM Nissan and Mazda "air" for the tires. Since the GCR doesn't say that I can replace this air with aftermarket air, one can only assume that I must use factory air.

Jim
King S.A.

Mike Spencer
06-24-2004, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by its66:
I have been looking for years for OEM Nissan and Mazda "air" for the tires. Since the GCR doesn't say that I can replace this air with aftermarket air, one can only assume that I must use factory air.

Jim King S.A.

I know this is all tongue-in-cheek, but before anybody starts taking it TOO seriously, take a look at the INTENT section in the front of the ITCS.

<ahem>
Other than those specifically allowed by these rules, no component or part normally found on a stock example of a given vehicle may be disabled, altered, or removed for the purpose of obtaining any competitive advantage.

The GCR does go on to define component as "A constituent part of an assembly." It does not define "part".

Either way, calling "air" a part or component would be like calling a HANS device a should...... um..... never mind!




------------------
Mike Spencer
NC Region
ITA/7 RX-7 (almost)
ITS RX-7 (just started)
1990 RX-7 Convertible (street car)

gsbaker
06-24-2004, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Mike Spencer:
...Either way, calling "air" a part or component would be like calling a HANS device a should...... um..... never mind!

http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

------------------
Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

[This message has been edited by gsbaker (edited June 24, 2004).]

ddewhurst
06-24-2004, 11:19 AM
***creating and spreading mischief and mayhem***

I'll buy that its66/Jim

Continue the Fun http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David

its66
06-24-2004, 11:44 AM
***creating and spreading mischief and mayhem***

Hey David,
That's my line http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif ...
Jim

TBreu007
06-24-2004, 03:14 PM
If I see that old Nissan air in your new Mazda's tires, I'll protest you...that's a definite performance enhancement http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Geo
06-24-2004, 04:01 PM
Don't forget that you can still protest non-OEM windshield wipers. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif


------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

ddewhurst
06-25-2004, 08:40 AM
its66 Jim, I know because it came from your profile.

Have Fun http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David