Is fuel test port necc.

[RR]

Why do we need fuel test ports? IT cars can use any grade of gasoline. Having to tap into the fuel line is dangerous. Can I just unscrew the hose clamp that thats on the end of the fuel rail, put a small cup and capture fuel? Would this pass tech? Is this a vigorously enforced rule?

[JohnRW]

1. Because people are screwing around with dangerous additives, even for low compression engines.

2. You can use 'any grade of gas', but cannot use the aforementioned nasty additives.

3. Not if you do it proper test port.

4. Not if an inspector is watching.

5. No.

6. You won't get an annual without one. What is your definition of 'vigorous' ?

[B Schley]

RR-
You need to have the tap. What you suggested will not pass tech. I don't know how to answer whether or not the testing is vigorous, but I did get tested last fall at the regional at Blackhawk Farms. Tech seems to do it very randomly. I don't know how this varies in each region.

--Bill

[This message has been edited by B Schley (edited March 24, 2004).]

[Greg Gauper]

You don't have to tap into the high pressure fuel line for a test port, IMHO.

Here's what I did on my Honda.

Cut the low pressure return line. Install a male & female quick disconnect fitting. Prepare a matching disconnect fitting attached to a 6' piece of 1/4" clear gas resistant hose/tubing. Coil up and zip tie to the car somewhere soo it's handy.

In normal operation, the quick disconnects are connected and since they are in the return line, the pressure is virtually zero (or very, very, low). When it comes time for the sample, I disconnect the fittings (no tools required) and plug in my test hose fitting in the line that came from the regulator (not the line from the tank!). The other end goes in the sample jar, several feet away from the (hot) car. I turn the ignition off and on a couple of times to let the pump run until the sample is collected. When finished, I disconnect the test hose and reconnect the return line.

Some people put the fittings in the high pressure side. One can certainly do this since the fittings are rated for high 200psi. But I was more concerned about the Murphy aspect in having the fittings work loose and causing a problem. I am very comfortable with using the return line since there is no pressure!

The formula car guys do something very clever (and safe) as well. They put the quick disconnect fitting in the supply line to the fuel pump (another 'zero' pressure line). When they draw the sample, they disconnect from the pump and connect their test hose in its place, and then just blow into the fuel cell vent line to push fuel into the sample bottle. No electronics required!

The fittings are pretty cheap, ranging in the $20-$30 per fitting depending if it's male or female, and the type of hose connection (barbed for hose, SAE, etc).

[CaptainWho]

I also suggest checking with Paul Morrison at www.fuelports.com (http://www.fuelports.com). He's got sample port setups for a variety of plumbing. Sure, it's pretty easy to do yourself in most cases, but it's really convenient to get an "all in one kit". And it saved me tracking down the AN-6 tee and stuff. He had it in stock.

[Greg Gauper]

Good discussion over on the F2000 website.

http://www.apexspeed.com/ubb/ultimatebb.ph...c;f=24;t=000042 (http://www.apexspeed.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=000042)

Paul Morrison's test ports got some good thumbs up ratings.

[This message has been edited by Greg Gauper (edited March 24, 2004).]

[lateapex911]

Vigorous? Not likely in an organization staffed by volunteers who are tired or cold or hot or need to go to the bathroom!
But, they exist for random compliance checks, which can be more effective, actually.

Methinks most of the grumbling is being rationalized by "safety" concerns, but the real reason is that it is a mandatory expense, both in time and money, and it doesn't make the car go fast.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[therooster]

Has any one tried just using the factory fuel pressure test equipment? I'll admit that I am currently looking at the 2002 GCR (new ones are with the car in my friends garage and I can not remember if this rule has changes) but section 17.4.2 seems to say that a fuel sample port is not necessary if you have the factory fuel pressure test equipment. Exact wording:
"17.4.2...Cars equipped with a factory fuel pressure test port (e.g. fuel injected SS, T, IT, SRF, etc.) or competitors having factory fuel pressure test equipment available, are not required to have an additional fuel sample port..."

Is this still the correct rule and if so do you need a unique port if you have the fuel pressure test equipment?

Chris

[CaptainWho]

For what it's worth, I read 17.4.2 the same way you do, Chris.

[Knestis]

Ditto - I had a local tech inspector say, "Oh, you have a VW - you can use the factory FI pressure port."

But wait - this one doesn't have it. I went the fuelports.com route.

K

[Greg Gauper]

Yes, you can use the factory test point, but you must have on hand a test hose with a matching test fitting.

[dickita15]

greg is right, or at least that is the way i interpret it and that is what i tell guys when i tech thier cars. either add a port or obtain a hose and fitting that attaches to the factory port.
dick

[tom91ita]

Greg,

What did you use for your quick connect fittings? I too have a Honda and would rather do something on the low pressure side.

tia, tom

[Bill Miller]

I read it like Chris, et al. I have a Bosch FI test system that I keep in the trailer. The last annual I took the ITB car to, I took it w/ me to tech. I also took the GCR w/ me to show the tech inspector, just in case. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif Passed w/ no discussion.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Greg Gauper]

I used a male and female quick disconnect with 'barbed' fittings for use with standard hose clamps. I have a third matching disconnect fitting with barbed fitting installed in my 6' long test hose.

They are similar to the 2000 series non-valved units shown in the Pegasus catalog, except mine are valved. http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pdfs/067.pdf

I don't remember where I got them...possibly Racer Wholesale or Equiv???? It was someplace in Indy and they sent me a flyer in the mail. This was before Pegasus carried the fittings.



[This message has been edited by Greg Gauper (edited March 31, 2004).]

[MMiskoe]

Maybe I am a bit of a cave man, but the simplest way I've found to get fuel out of a car is to use a mighty-vac & a pc of hose down into the tank/cell. A siphon is a pretty cool little real-life fluid dynamics display. Only slightly more complicated than the wheel.

So, can anyone tell me why it is that SCCA believes that having extra fittings (ie potential leaks) next to a hot engine, where you can't see it is a "good idea"?

I have yet to see a car that didn't have a an opening in the tank big enough to jam a length of hose down it.

[Peter Olivola]

Because it's possible to introduce illegal substances separately. As to the leak issue, if you aren't doing a fuel system leak check as part of your prep, what else are you neglecting?


Originally posted by MMiskoe:
So, can anyone tell me why it is that SCCA believes that having extra fittings (ie potential leaks) next to a hot engine, where you can't see it is a "good idea"?

[planet6racing]

Re: Siphoning

Also, how do you get passed the check valve installed in all the newer cars? I've tried, but never had success.

Where in the GCR does it say the fuel port needs to be in the engine compartment? (just trying to spur additional thinking, not to flame!)

------------------
Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

[CaptainWho]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Also, how do you get passed the check valve installed in all the newer cars? I've tried, but never had success.</font>

I can't quote chapter and verse without going and digging through the GCR, but it explicitly states that if you have a test port from the factory, you can use it if you provide proper hose and fitting to take the sample.


<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Where in the GCR does it say the fuel port needs to be in the engine compartment? (just trying to spur additional thinking, not to flame!)</font>

It doesn't. It specifically recommends that the test port not be in then engine compartment. If you're getting dinged at tech then take the GCR with you.

[planet6racing]

Hey Captain:

I meant for siphoning. When I feed the little hose down the fuel filler to get to the tank to siphon out the gas, the hose hits the factory installed check valve and my hose goes no further.

The factory installed fuel test port, in my car, is in the engine compartment. I've never given it a second thought.

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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

[CaptainWho]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">I meant for siphoning. When I feed the little hose down the fuel filler to get to the tank to siphon out the gas, the hose hits the factory installed check valve and my hose goes no further.</font>

Ooops. Sorry, Bill, I misread your query. And I don't have an answer short of removing the check valve. I don't have any idea whether that's legal to do, though.


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Doug "Lefty" Franklin
NutDriver Racing
www.nutdriver.org (http://www.nutdriver.org)