Rain Tires

[D Walt]

I recently obtained an extra set of wheels with the intention of mounting a set of rain tires. I'm wondering what other people have for rain tires... Is skinner better? I have 225/50/R14 Kumhos for dry. also price is a big factor for me, I have a hard time paying big bucks for a set of tires I Hopefully will not need.

Any advice is greatly appreciated

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D. Walter DeHaven
ITS BMW e30
WDC Region

[Bryan Watts]

Well, if you are looking for cheap, just get the cheapest full tread Toyo's, Kumho Victo's, or whatever else you can. They will work ok I guess, but real rain tires use softer compounds so that they heat up and grip.

If you want real rain tires, get the Hoosier DOT rains. I haven't run on DOT's rains in a long time (been running in classes not requiring DOT tires), but I hear good things about them from all of the BMW folks I know:
https://www.hoosiertire.com/rrtire.htm

[D Walt]

Bryan,

Thanks for the reply,
So what do you think about grooving some A compound tires? they would be softer.... and I think i know where I can get a set for free.
ever had any luck grooving your own tires?

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D. Walter DeHaven
ITS BMW e30
WDC Region

[Matt Rowe]

You might also consider that there are rain tires for heavy water, and intermediate tires for when the track is wet but standing water is minimal. When I had to choose between rains and intermediates I went with the intermediates. They will suit both conditions without worrying about burning off the soft rains if you miss you guess on the weather and the track starts to dry out. You will lose and advantage during heavy rain but if you on a budget it might be a good compromise.

Aside from the other brands mentioned you might also look into Hankooks since they just came out with a brand new line of tires ocvering everything from dries to full rains in a variety of compounds.

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~Matt Rowe
ITA Shelby Charger
MARRS #96

[Greg Gauper]

Hoosier Dirt Stockers make great rain tires for the budget minded racer....

I think I spent $60-$65 a piece for 205/60-13's.

[RSTPerformance]

Originally posted by D Walt:

ever had any luck grooving your own tires?



Not legal in IT, Touring, or SS


Dirt Stockers are the best "value" They are very very good and probably only second to Hoosiers real rain tires in my opinion.


Stephen

[Bryan Watts]

Originally posted by Matt Rowe:
You might also consider that there are rain tires for heavy water, and intermediate tires for when the track is wet but standing water is minimal.

If there's no standing water, I've always been faster on normal slicks. The line dries up after 2-3 laps anyway.

Of course, sometimes it's nice to have some partial tread tires to run when the track is a bit damp and more rain may be on it's way.

[924Guy]

Indeed. I've got a set of Michelin Pilot Sport Cups with full tread that I think I'll probably use for intermediates, if needed, this year. They recommend shaving for full-dry use, and they're supposed to be pretty darn close to Hoosier speed in the dry, yet with much higher durability and consistency, and good in lesser amounts of water (until you're ready to run the Dirt Stockers).

Of course the downside is price; for my size (205/50/15) they were $200 apiece! OTOH, if they last longer than the R3SO4's... (some Porsche Club guys have reported closing in on 50 heat cycles with these things, they were designed for endurance racing).

Just another option...

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Vaughan Scott
Detroit Region #280052
'79 924 #77 ITB/GTS1
www.vaughanscott.com

[Bill Miller]

I've found the full depth Toyos work well as intermediates. Haven't run the Hoosier DOT rains, but the Dirt Stockers work well when there is standing water on the track (like there will be at Pocono this weekend! http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/eek.gif ). But, you will burn them off the car, in a few laps, if the track dries out.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Greg Gauper:
Hoosier Dirt Stockers make great rain tires for the budget minded racer....

I think I spent $60-$65 a piece for 205/60-13's.

Greg,

Who has them for this price???



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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[gran racing]

I'd say full tread Toyos. The nice thing about them is that if they start to get a bit older and hard, you can use them for HPDE / track days. I recently used them in extremely heavy rain and they did pretty well; I was pleasantly surprised. I'm sure the Dirt Stockers would have been faster.

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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[JohnRW]

Originally posted by Bill Miller:
Greg,

Who has them for this price???




I think he's flashing back to 1982.

[Knestis]

Bryan's point is excellent, from the perspective of the Washington State guy in the crowd. It rains there, y'know.

Many drivers freak out when it gets wet and go leaping for different tires. There's wet, wetter, and actual rain-tire wet...

If you look across the surface of the track and it's actually mirror smooth - as in standing puddles - then it's time to think about "real" rain tires (Dirt Stockers)

If you can see aggregate poking up through the water, think "intermediates" - Toyos or whatever, with some tread more or less.

If it's truly just damp - no actual water standing between the pebbles of the surface - it's slicks, baby.

K

[Greg Gauper]

Sorry, my mistake. I was looking at the wrong receipt.

They were closer to $100/tire. I get mine from Frisby.

And yes, I did pay $65/tire for my first set, back in 1998. They lasted quite a while. Had to finally toss them at the start of last season due to dryrot in the sidewalls, otherwise I had about 50% tread left. They got used about 10 times during that period.

I agree with Kirk, for the most point, but one other very important issue is temperature. It can be damp but cold and the surface will be like ice, and without grip, you can't get the tires to work hard enough to generate heat, in order to generate grip.

My criteria for when to use them is whether or not the cars in the previous race group are giving off lots of spray on the straights. Obviously temperature, wind, sunlight, and age and type of track surface are other factors that determine when to run wets vs dries. Local track knowledge helps a great deal in this respect. Some tracks will start to dry as soon as it stops raining. Other tracks have to be almost bone dry before you get any grip at all. Tracks with lots of trees in some sections will tend to take longer to dry due to the trees blocking the sun, plus the rain will drip off the leaves onto the track.

And then there's always the fun of running a real long track like Road America and have bright sunshine and clear sky in turn 1, and a thunderstorm in turn 12.

[Bryan Watts]

Originally posted by Greg Gauper:
And then there's always the fun of running a real long track like Road America and have bright sunshine and clear sky in turn 1, and a thunderstorm in turn 12.

Same thing happens at Road Atlanta and VIR. It's always exciting trying to guess just how much grip you have on various portions of the track each time you come around on successive laps.

[Bill Miller]

BTW,

The rule is, it will _definately_ rain at Pocono if you don't bring your rain tires!! http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/biggrin.gif

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[RSTPerformance]

This is a real question... I don't have the GCR nearbye but is it really illigal to groove your own tires???

If so then can you "shave" your tires???

I would think that if you are "grooving" DOT legal tires then it would be legal...

Raymond "Is my bro right?" Blethen

[Matt Rowe]

The ITCS does specifically say that "racing, recapped, or regrooved tires are not allowed. The only modificatoins allowed to tires are having treads shaved or trued." Where both shaving and trueing are specifically defined in the GCR.

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~Matt Rowe
ITA Shelby Charger
MARRS #96

[timrogers]

Originally posted by Greg Gauper:
And yes, I did pay $65/tire for my first set, back in 1998. They lasted quite a while. Had to finally toss them at the start of last season due to dryrot in the sidewalls, otherwise I had about 50% tread left. They got used about 10 times during that period.



I think this is the best point. Depending on how often you run, how much it rains and how good your tire vendor support is on race weekends, you might just be better off bringing the spare wheels each weekend and hold off on buying rain tires until you really need them. Due to aging issues, I think that the quoted life of the average tire is about 5 years before they degrade to the point of being dangerous.
Therefore, every year you hold off on buying rain tires is close to getting a free tire...



[This message has been edited by timrogers (edited May 13, 2005).]

[RSTPerformance]

Originally posted by RSTPerformance:
Raymond "Is my bro right?" Blethen



No Trust at all! Jeesh.

Stephen

[lateapex911]

I thought degredation was an issue as well, but I was able to do pretty well on 7 yr. old Dirt Stockers. Of course it was an absolute deluge. So maybe my success was due to the tread depth, and not the compound.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[charrbq]

I run a set of 205/60x13 Hoosier Dirt Stockers on a 13x5.5 rim. I'm only allowed 13x6 in ITC, and those were what I had extra. Talking with Hoosier, the size is about perfect. I've had them for three years and used them only once, but they were well worth the money in safety alone. For a wet track (steady drizzle), I use shaved 215/50x13 Kumhos on 6" rims. For dry it's Hoosiers and only Hoosiers. I am going to sell the Dirt Stockers to my team mate and by some new Hoosier Rains when they make them available in 13" size.

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Chris Harris
ITC Honda Civic