scales

[Doc Bro]

Hey what are you guys using to set up your car? Are the digital scales worth the investment? Are we really changing the set up that often? Do the fulcrum scales work just as well (Ruggles scales)? Should I just go by feel? (Sorry Newbie) Trying to keep my budget "bang for buck" in perspective.
thanks for the info!!

[racer_tim]

Doc Bro, if you can't afford to buy the $300 Ruggles scales, then your in the wrong sport.

Or, take it down to your local race shop and let them to the corner weighting and use that as your base line until you get faster, and learn the car. It's much easier to learn to drive a car fast when it's setup correctly.

Also, have somebody else drive the car, that either has one like yours, or at least is familiar with FWD or RWD or the same horsepower. Let them make some suggestions, and don't get pissy if they knock 4 seconds off your best lap time. If they do, then it's you. If they can't, it might be the car.



------------------
Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[Doc Bro]

hey thanks for the info. I am considering the ruggles but, if they are not as good then I'll shoot for the 1200 units. I just don't want to go right out of the box and buy 1200 scales if the end result is the same. 800 bucks in the kitty can go far in this sport!!

[planet6racing]

The cheapest way I have found to scale a car:

1) Go to the track.
2) Make nice to everyone. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif
3) About mid-season, ask to use someone's scale setup in exchange for beverage/pizza.
4) Continue to make nice to everyone. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif



------------------
Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

[racer14itc]

Ruggles scales work just fine. Spend a few bucks more for quality bathroom scales and you'll be amazed at how repeatable and consistent your weights will be. The important thing with any scale setup is learning HOW TO USE them properly.

I've watched people spend hours scaling their cars on high dollar digital scales, adjusting corner weights and such and noticed that they didn't zero the scales first and didn't disconnect the sway bars before adjusting the corner weights. (Yes, I could have said something at the time but it was just too amusing...they were 'know it all types' who didn't want my advice).

I got my Ruggles on eBay for $200, including shipping. Best investment in handling I ever made. The $1200 scales MIGHT be a pound or two more accurate on each wheel, but even some of those scales have 0.5% - 1% error, which is 2-5 lbs on my car. To me, they're not worth the extra $1000, I used that extra money for entry fees and tires.

Just my opinion of course,

MC

------------------
Mark Coffin
#14 GP BSI Racing/Action Digital/Airborn Coatings/Krispy Kreme VW Scirocco
http://pages.prodigy.net/Scirocco14gp



[This message has been edited by racer14itc (edited February 24, 2005).]

[Doc Bro]

Excellent advice. Anybody have any ruggles scales for sale??

[HounDawg]

You can get weighed for free at SCCA events. The tech scales use two scales and weigh the two front wheels, then the two rear wheels. There you go...four corner weights.
Generally, if you pick times when the Tech folks are not overwhelmed, you can get your car weighed as many times as you like.
How's that for bang for the buck?

[racer14itc]

Originally posted by HounDawg:
You can get weighed for free at SCCA events. The tech scales use two scales and weigh the two front wheels, then the two rear wheels. There you go...four corner weights.
Generally, if you pick times when the Tech folks are not overwhelmed, you can get your car weighed as many times as you like.
How's that for bang for the buck?



1. You're assuming the scales are calibrated properly.
2. You're assuming the scales are leveled.
3. You're assuming that weighing one axle at a time will give you proper corner weights.

Reality:

1. Nope
2. Nope
3. Definitely not.

Plus, when you're adjusting the corner weights you need to see the immediate affect of an adjustment at one corner on the others to get it where you want it to be. Can't do that with tech scales.

Remember, the only purpose of tech's scales is to determine the car's total weight.

MC

------------------
Mark Coffin
#14 GP BSI Racing/Action Digital/Airborn Coatings/Krispy Kreme VW Scirocco
http://pages.prodigy.net/Scirocco14gp

[This message has been edited by racer14itc (edited February 24, 2005).]

[planet6racing]

2005 GCR Section 11.3.4: Certification

The scales shall be certified by:

A. On-site certification by a commercial scale service within ninety (90) days prior to the event, OR

B. Use at the track of certification weights, minimum 250 pound total for individual wheel scales and minimum 750 pounds total for platform scales.


So, if your region isn't doing this, you need to protest them. That should take care of "A" above.

------------------
Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

[racer14itc]

Originally posted by planet6racing:
So, if your region isn't doing this, you need to protest them. That should take care of "A" above.




Bill, I agree with you. But if it's in our favor, why would I protest them? http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif I know in several cases the track weights were significantly higher than the shop weights for me and others that have scales. They must get their scales at the same place my doctor's office does. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/eek.gif (Have you ever noticed the doctor's scale always reads 10 lbs higher than the bathroom scale at home???).

Maybe it cuts down on the hassles of DQ'ing light cars? I don't know. I just wouldn't trust track scales to set up my car, even if it was on a four scale platform like a few tracks have.

MC


------------------
Mark Coffin
#14 GP BSI Racing/Action Digital/Airborn Coatings/Krispy Kreme VW Scirocco
http://pages.prodigy.net/Scirocco14gp

[This message has been edited by racer14itc (edited February 24, 2005).]

[1stGenBoy]

Bill,
We are now renting a set of Intercomp SW1 scales for $50.00 per day or $100.00 for the weekend Fri pm through Mon am. Local rental only. You know where to call! I also have a set of Ruggles and find we are damm close to the electronic scales IF you do the set up of the scales correctly and are careful rolling the car on and off the scales.

Bob

[HounDawg]

Atlanta region has a set of certified weights they place on each scale prior to the event and calibrate the scales.
The tech shed at Road Atlanta is pretty level.
All I know is that I've worked tech and seen guys come through the scales and then again after making adjustments and noting how much weight they were able to move around. No, it's not instant, but it's a start for people who are just getting started. I think one of those guys was the one who had a buck left at the end of the race weekend and bought me a beer. I may be wrong.

[racer14itc]

Originally posted by HounDawg:
Atlanta region has a set of certified weights they place on each scale prior to the event and calibrate the scales.
The tech shed at Road Atlanta is pretty level.
All I know is that I've worked tech and seen guys come through the scales and then again after making adjustments and noting how much weight they were able to move around. No, it's not instant, but it's a start for people who are just getting started. I think one of those guys was the one who had a buck left at the end of the race weekend and bought me a beer. I may be wrong.

HD, I agree it's a start. The real advantage of having your own scales is so you can set the corner weights correctly for a particular track before you leave. I use a different corner weight setup for different tracks, and it can be correct right off the trailer, ready to go.

If people don't mind the hassle of using the tech shed scales, then it's an inexpensive alternative.

MC


------------------
Mark Coffin
#14 GP BSI Racing/Action Digital/Airborn Coatings/Krispy Kreme VW Scirocco
http://pages.prodigy.net/Scirocco14gp

[joeg]

Get your own scales--forget the track stuff.

Scaling is very important and if you mod your car at all during a season (new struts/replacement struts different components with different weights, etc.), you will want to spend the time alone in the privacy of your shop to see how weights are affected with changes. The slightest changes have big impact. I can never replace a strut and get it back to the same ride height and corner weight without resorting to the scales.

You also want to do it regularly during the season.

Nothing is more satisfying than rolling accross a proper set of scales at post race impound, looking at your gas gauge and knowing exactly what those scales will total.

Ruggles work (with a helper), but even more important is that you check in a LEVEL area. You should buy a level (bubble, laser) and mark your spots for the future.

Cheers.