View Full Version : Need new belts

01-05-2005, 01:33 PM
Alright, my belts have expired and I need to order a new set. What's the hot ticket in harnesses these days? Do I have to get a 6 or 7 point system, or is the old standby 5 point still ok? Is the multi point set-up really that beneficial for a sedan with up-right driver? How about comfort and ease of use?

Over the last 3 or 4 years I've been using gforce belts with the pull-up lap belts. While I would prefer the pull-down type for ease of cinching-up, every pull-down lap belt I've tried has the adjuster buckles positioned right over my thighs, resulting in discomfort during driving. The gforce pull-up belts position the adjuster buckle to the right of my leg, so it is not an issue.

The gforce have worked "ok" but the knurled roller adjusters sure are not very smooth working. You have to be real careful with these else you'll get some bunching going on. Dose anyone make belts with smoother operation adjuster rollers?

Finally, what to do with expired belts? I now have four sets of expired belts. Two that are pretty much new in the box, one that has seen maybe 4 seasons of use and another that has seen 1 season of use. Can I sell these on ebay or something? What about liability concerns with selling a critical safety item like this?


01-05-2005, 02:12 PM
One of the most impressive new products out there is from Hooker Harness.

http://www.americanracefan.com/2002/02_New.../news121002.htm (http://www.americanracefan.com/2002/02_News/news121002.htm)

This company comes to racing from the aviation/military arena. Very smart designs with mil spec components.

http://www.hookerharness.com is the company's site, but it's all aviation (I think).

Guess what belts we will be using for our next crash tests?

Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC

Edit: spelling is good.

[This message has been edited by gsbaker (edited January 06, 2005).]

Tom Donnelly
01-05-2005, 02:35 PM
Can't you have the belts re-webbed? The hardware is re-used and the belts are replaced. Racer wholesale used to do that, I haven't looked into that for a couple of years.


dave parker
01-05-2005, 06:52 PM
Any safety equipment manufacturer with a lawyer worth the suit he is wearing will not reweb belts. Too much liability.
As far as what to do with your old belts, do you know anyone who does just drive ed. style track events? They can use outdated belts.
Hopefully that helps.

dave parker

01-05-2005, 07:36 PM
According to the folks at Simpson in Mooresville-they will sell you a 5-point Latch&Link set for $75 and your SFI tags from the set in the car. I stopped there and asked if they wanted the old belts and was told just send the tags. It is even in the catalog. I only know of 1 company that still recertifies belts.
I do agree that there should be no problem using your outdated set for autocross or HPDE-just make sure how you actually remove the tags-be very careful so as not to damage the webbing.
One of the issues that has come up has been the condition of the latching mechanism and rollers/springs. There is some concern that under some conditions the latch could pop open (L&L type) or that the sliders could release. I think this is a bit far fetched for our type of events. I do agree that after a serious crash all of the webbed devices should be replaced.

Grandpa's toys-modded suspensions and a few other tweaks
'89 CRX Si-SCCA ITA #99
'99 Prelude=a sweet song
'03 Dodge Dakota Club Cab V8-Patriot Blue gonna tow

01-05-2005, 09:50 PM
If you've never used "loop and D-ring" (like those Hookers) or V-style anti-sub belts (like I have on the Willans LD6), you haven't experienced true belt yumminess.

They hold onto you like a parachute or climbing harness and you can REALLY snug them down without squashing the boys.


01-07-2005, 12:52 AM
So am am going to try switching over to 6 point this year. Ordered from Simpson.
http://www.simpsonraceproducts.com/product...90&prod_id=1944 (http://www.simpsonraceproducts.com/products/product_detail.aspx?cat_id=190&prod_id=1944)

What do people do for the mounting of the 2 anti-sub straps in a sedan style seat? Do you run the 2 sub straps through the single hole in the bottom of the seat to the floorboard or would you run them through the opening in the side of the seat so they mount to the same point as the lap belts?

ITS #91

Dave Zaslow
01-07-2005, 08:23 AM
It is essential that you explicitly follow the manufacturers directions for mounting. Bring those instructions with you to your annual tech. That will help in any discussion with your tech inspector that you've done it wrong.

The Willans 6 point belts go through the seat hole and mount to the floor at points near the rear of the seat. Other models/brands are through the lap belt holes on the side of the seat.

Dave Z

John Herman
01-07-2005, 09:01 AM
Jeff, while I second the "follow the manufacturer's recommendations", I had the same issue you do. Therefore, I run the two anti-sub belts through the lap belt holes in the seat and clip them to the same point as the lap belt. Otherwise,IMO, the 6 point is no better than the 5 point if both straps run through the single hole in the bottom of the seat. When they are run through the side holes, the harness will really tighten up against you as you tighten it up(good). I used 5pts for years, then switched to 6pt last year. I like it much better.

Greg Amy
01-07-2005, 09:51 AM
"...true belt yumminess"? Kirk, please put down the wrenches and step away from the car. Take your wife out to dinner and a movie before you do something you'll regret and it's too late...

01-07-2005, 11:32 PM
I have a near-new Leaf 6pt cam lock forsale in the classified section (used 1 week). red. dated sept/04. These are very nice belts. pull down. new was $200. I'll sell it for $150 inc. shipping.

http://www.leafracewear.com/display_produc...sp?product=1145 (http://www.leafracewear.com/display_products.asp?product=1145)

01-08-2005, 12:57 AM
Thanks for the feeback on the belt mounting.


Mike Spencer
01-14-2005, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by jc836:
According to the folks at Simpson in Mooresville-they will sell you a 5-point Latch&Link set for $75 and your SFI tags from the set in the car. <snip>

I was actually up in Mooresville yesterday. They told me about the "trade-in" policy. Other companies may do this as well, but they also mentioned that they don't stock belts. All are special order. That way, you get a VERY recent manuf. date and get the whole 2 years out of them.

Mike Spencer
NC Region
ITA/7 RX-7 #60
1990 RX-7 Convertible (street car)

01-15-2005, 01:56 PM
Keep in mind that Schroth has proven the long required 3" lap belts to be less "safe" than a 2" belt. Something about less chance of belt riding up over hip and damaging the organs of the waist area. Becuase of this the SCCA has now included many of the FIA approved belt designs that they've been using over in Europe for years.

Here's some more info...

http://www.theracesite.com/index.cfm?paget...rm_article=6531 (http://www.theracesite.com/index.cfm?pagetype=2&form_article=6531)

This is the new "hotness"


01-24-2005, 05:32 PM
Something that I'm having trouble figuring out is how the multiple sub belts are adjusted in multi-driver situations. If the two sub straps are attached to the same anchor points as the lap belts, wouldn't tightening the lap belts loosen the sub belts?

-Scott Gallimore
-NCR Region
-ITC #88 Pulsar

01-25-2005, 11:25 AM
SCCA has only allowed the use of approved 2" shoulder straps when used in conjunction with the HANS device. No HANS, 3" straps are required.

You can get current dated belts without resorting to custom harnesses.

Howard Bennett
Racer Wholesale

01-25-2005, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by sgallimo:
If the two sub straps are attached to the same anchor points as the lap belts, wouldn't tightening the lap belts loosen the sub belts?

No sir. When tightening/loosening the lap belts the position of their anchor points do not move.

If you have the d-ring (very comfortable) style such as the Crow Formula or Willans tightening the lap belts will also pull the d-rings closer to the lap belt anchor point which will also tighten the sub straps.

[This message has been edited by Quickshoe (edited January 25, 2005).]

01-26-2005, 06:01 PM
Question for those who know more than I (which is a fairly large group):

Is there any concern about common mounting points in a six point system for the subs and lap belts, at least in terms of distributing the load(s) over a greater area?

My thought is that a given load concentrated at two mounting points (right and left side, subs and laps common) is higher than splitting it up over four points (right and left, subs and laps seperate). Is this even a concern? Or is the hardware easily up to the task?

Rob (<---who is trying to avoid running the "true belt yumminess" video in his head)

01-26-2005, 07:21 PM
...is the hardware easily up to the task?

The hardware is easily up to the task. The sub belts don't take much load anyway.

Ty Till
#16 ITS
Rocky Mountain Division

01-27-2005, 08:25 AM
The sub belts don't take much load anyway.

I don't agree with this statement. In a hard rollover, the sub belt(s) are really the only belt that saves your neck from getting broken when the car lands hard on its roof. If this belt is not tight enough (and believe me many racers out there dont really tighten this belt) your head may hit the roof in a rollover and you could be seriously injured. The bolts could pull right through the floor.

So pay attention to the attachment points for the sub belt(s) and their mounting hardware. I use grade 8 bolts with huge washers and make sure this belt is tight!

[This message has been edited by racer-025 (edited January 27, 2005).]

01-27-2005, 09:58 AM
In a hard rollover, the sub belt(s) are really the only belt that saves your neck from getting broken when the car lands hard on its roof.

Got to agree with this one--especially since I have hung upside down in a Pro Rally car and know what a good substrap system does.