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zracer22
02-26-2004, 07:12 PM
Last october at Putnam Park I saw two miatas and one 944 each go thru a set of new Hoosiers in less than a weekend. Since then, Hoosier ask the 944 driver to send his back to Hoosier and they gave him another set. Recently, we got 15 heat cycles and over six hours of track time out of one set of the new Hoosiers on a World Challenge BMW, and there was still some life left when we took them off. Is it the difference between World Challenge suspension (JRZ RR shocks) and Improved Touring suspension that made the difference, or was it just a bad bunch of tires at Putnam Park? I hope it was a bad batch of tires at Putnam!

7racing
02-27-2004, 10:50 AM
I've heard both stories. Not sure what the real issue is. I'll know more after the first couple of races on them. I'm hoping that the World Challenge BMW story is more accurate.

Jeremy

Greg Amy
02-27-2004, 10:53 AM
I raced on 'em at the ARRC. One practice session, two quallies, and the race. Doesn't look like they wore much at all...

joeg
02-27-2004, 01:32 PM
I also haven't seen any close-out specials on the older style Hoosiers in the smaller sizes.

Are there such deals? (The Hoosier man had told me late last year that they would have such a discount program going.)

bldn10
05-31-2004, 11:27 AM
Now that we're well into the season, what are your experiences w/ the new Hoosiers? I have now been through a set on my ITS RX-7 and I only got 6 sessions out of them. I ran them for a 7th and 8th and they still had rubber but no grip. I'm not real keen on spending $130 per session on tires. Someone this weekend recommended Michelins - anyone use them?

zracer22
05-31-2004, 11:51 AM
The Michelin Pilots last for ever. but the are slower than Hoosier, Huhmo, and Toyo. I've been running Toyos for two years, and I love them. 20-30 sessions and they don't loose grip until the cords start showing.

Hotshoe
05-31-2004, 10:45 PM
I posted on another thread that I have been trying a set of the new Hoosiers. Well, the verdict is in as far as my opinion.

Results: 9 heat cycles so far
........ 4 races
........ 5 qualifying

The tires still have 1/4 tread left, I could get one more race out of them but I am going to use them for qualifying only just to see how many more heat cycles they will take.

Compared to the old Hoosier .... Excellent ... beats them hands down. Not including when the tire is new (first heat cycle) the speed drops off about .3 per heat cycle after the first four cycles.

For the money and the drivability I will continue to use the 04 Hoosier. Five very competitive races out of a set of tires is pretty good in my book.

Rick Thompson #99 IT7

TypeSH
05-31-2004, 11:24 PM
If you want to be competitive the question is how can you afford not to run them? They are a good 1-2 seconds per lap faster than the Kumhos or Toyos, which is an eternity in racing. I get about six sessions on a set before they start going off significantly. However I found that since I have FWD I can put the older tires on the rear and they are still very usable.

philstireservice
06-01-2004, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by bldn10:
Now that we're well into the season, what are your experiences w/ the new Hoosiers?


I have a few sets with 8-10 cycles on them and they are still better than the old Hoosier 03's.....the new 04's are excellent....better money spent than Toyo's


------------------
Phil Phillips Integra GSR #4
www.philstireservice.com
Official Independent Amsoil Dealer for the ECHC
Distributor for FireCharger AFFF fire systems
Hoosier Tire Dealer

ITS_Racer1
06-01-2004, 04:35 PM
I have gone through my first set of '04s. The grip really fell off in the 7th heat cycle. These were never set aside after the first heat cycle.
My second set have been heat cycled and "set aside" for a few weeks. It will be interesting to see the effect on useful life.

Parrish57
06-01-2004, 05:25 PM
How do the 04's compare with the 03's as far as the need for heat cycling them and letting them cure for a while?

zracer22
06-01-2004, 06:14 PM
Hoosier's are 1-2 seconds quicker? Where is the scientific data to back that statement up? As stated, 1-2 seconds is an eternity. I find it hard to believe that they are 1-2 seconds quicker. .3 or .5 seconds I can believe, but 2 seconds!!! Sure, if you throw some Toyos on a car that is set up for Hoosiers, you might loose 1-2 seconds, but not if you tuned the car for the Toyos. I just paid $104 each for RA1s 225/50-14 and I easily get 25 heat cycles out of them with very minimal drop off in lap times. In fact, I recently ran my fastest laps ever at Putnam Park on tires that had 20 heat cycles on them. Here's a video of that race. http://www.gtschallenge.com/videos/PutnamLap.wmv With the results I get from my Toyos, I can't justify spending $175 for a tire with a shorter life. I'd take Toyos with 10 sessions over Hoosiers with 10 sessions any day.

[This message has been edited by zracer22 (edited June 01, 2004).]

Jake
06-01-2004, 08:56 PM
z- interesting stuff. I've been running 225/50-14 Toyo's for the last year and a half and have been loving them. At least 25 Heat Cycles on them. The R3S04 is said to last much longer and stick better than the old ones - but as you say - it would be nice to see something scientific. 1-2 sec? What track? What car? etc....

As for setup - I don't think the setup for the different tires is really all that different. If somebody thinks it is, please let me know.

gran racing
06-02-2004, 08:57 AM
Jake - you're proof (or lack there of) will be coming on 6/19. (He is trying the new Hoosiers out)

------------------
Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

x-ring
06-02-2004, 09:10 AM
Zracer22, how about telling us where you found RA-1's for $104, eh?



------------------
Ty Till
#16 ITS
Rocky Mountain Division

Tom Blaney
06-02-2004, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by Jake:
z- interesting stuff. I've been running 225/50-14 Toyo's for the last year and a half and have been loving them. At least 25 Heat Cycles on them. The R3S04 is said to last much longer and stick better than the old ones - but as you say - it would be nice to see something scientific. 1-2 sec? What track? What car? etc....

As for setup - I don't think the setup for the different tires is really all that different. If somebody thinks it is, please let me know.

I ran the new tire at Pocono two weeks ago, and I reset my own best time there by almost 2 seconds. I will know better after this weekend at the 12 hour how the tire holds up on distance, but overall I think it is a dramatically improved tire. The turnin is different, it seems to be less prone to flatspotting, and the tread patch is a littler bigger for the same size tire.

Keep in mind that this is racing, if you want to go fast you have to spend money. It's that way in every racing venue, I am sure you can get a gagillion miles on a set of Toyo's, but don't get cranky when a set of Hoosiers blow past you in the corners.

oanglade
06-02-2004, 09:16 AM
Quite a few Spec Miata racers tested the S04 last year before the ARRC back to back with the Toyo and found the Hoosier to be significantly faster (1 to 2 secs. a lap faster).

I've heard that they last more than the S03s. I just wish they were more consistent through their life, even if that meant giving a little of that ultimate grip. That is something I really like about the Toyo.


------------------
Ony Anglade
ITA Miata
Sugar Hill, GA

zracer22
06-02-2004, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by x-ring:
Zracer22, how about telling us where you found RA-1's for $104, eh?


Sorry about that! C&J Tire in PA http://www.cjtire.com/
1-866-208-6551 ask for Joe!

joeg
06-02-2004, 12:25 PM
Tom is right! I do not expect tires to last forever and it is wierd to insist they do.

The closest I have seen to a back-to-back comparison was in a GRM a couple years ago.

Guess what? The old Hoosiers were significantly faster.Haven't seen any comparos on the new style, however. I have done my own KUMHO v HOOSIER comparisons (but not back to back)in different dry sessions and I come up with a 1.5 second difference--at the minimum.

I still carry a set of KUMHOs beacause they are much safer (and quicker) on a damp to wet track.

Good Luck with the Toyos.

Jake
06-02-2004, 01:44 PM
It takes me about 2:30 to get around Watkins Geln, and 1:06 to get around Lime Rock Park. 1.5sec is meaningless if you don't mention how long the track is.

zracer22
06-02-2004, 01:49 PM
Tom, I look forward to your results from the 12 hour.

lateapex911
06-02-2004, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by Tom Blaney:
Keep in mind that this is racing, if you want to go fast you have to spend money. It's that way in every racing venue, I am sure you can get a gagillion miles on a set of Toyo's, but don't get cranky when a set of Hoosiers blow past you in the corners.

True enough Tom, but if we were able to prohibit (somehow! durometer readings?) tires that only last seven (?) heat cycles, we all would be throwing a LOT less money away.

By the time it's all said and done, I have to spend almost a thousand for set of tires to be heat cycled, shipped, mounted and the old ones removed. Seven cycles (two races!!!) it's time to do it all over again! Sucks.

(If I knew what wheel I was going to be on next year I might get another set and do away with the heatcycle charge...)



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

gran racing
06-02-2004, 02:38 PM
Jake,
Where do you get your Hoosier tires heat cycled?

If you can figure out how to heat cycle them yourself, go up to NE Hoosier in Manchester CT. Free mounting (yeah, have to pay sales taxes).

------------------
Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

[This message has been edited by gran racing (edited June 02, 2004).]

bldn10
06-21-2004, 11:18 AM
Now that I know that I can only count on 6 good sessions out of them, has anyone tried traction treatment? I wonder if $20-30 will get at least another day out of them, or make them decent for practice? Any recommendations?

philstireservice
06-21-2004, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by bldn10:
Now that I know that I can only count on 6 good sessions out of them, has anyone tried traction treatment? I wonder if $20-30 will get at least another day out of them, or make them decent for practice? Any recommendations?

I've had a few customers use traction treatment...it didn't work

------------------
Phil Phillips Integra GSR #4
www.philstireservice.com
Official Independent Amsoil Dealer for the ECHC
Distributor for FireCharger AFFF fire systems
Hoosier Tire Dealer

Jake
06-21-2004, 02:05 PM
FWIW, ran R3S04's for the first time at LRP last weekend and pulled a 1:05.5. The last race up there was on 13 race old Toyos and did a 1:06.5.

oanglade
06-21-2004, 03:18 PM
So,
after that 6th heat cycle on the Hoosiers (or 7th or 10th) what are you left of in terms of grip, compared not to a fresh Hoosier, but to another brand tire, like a Toyo?

I mean, is a Hoosier with 8 heat cycles slower than a Toyo or a Kumho? Or is it just slower than a fresh Hoosier, but perhaps about like a Toyo (say, a second a lap slower if we use Jake's example right above) or are they simply too hard to be worth anything?

------------------
Ony Anglade
ITA Miata
Sugar Hill, GA

gran racing
06-21-2004, 04:21 PM
Ony,
Jake's saying he was 1 second faster on the new Hoosiers versus 13 race old Toyos. Not new toyos versus old Toyos or new toyos versus new Hoosiers.



------------------
Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

oanglade
06-21-2004, 04:50 PM
I understand that.

My question (to anyone) is how do Hoosiers with say, 7 heat cycles, compare to new Toyos, for example.

I know Toyos stay fairly consistent through their life, at least in my experience.


------------------
Ony Anglade
ITA Miata
Sugar Hill, GA

[This message has been edited by oanglade (edited June 21, 2004).]

gran racing
06-21-2004, 10:52 PM
Maybe with all of the Hoosier hype I'm in a bit of post mortum shock. At first 1 second definately sounds worth it. Then...1 second with 13 old "MR2" Toyos versus new Hoosiers? And I need to preface 13 race MR2 Toyos because they are much different then 3 race old prelude Toyos.

Maybe Jake isn't used to the new Hoosiers and using to their full potential? Nothing against ya Jake, but you already know that. There has been so much hype about Hoosier versus Toyo.



------------------
Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

moto62
06-22-2004, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by oanglade:
My question (to anyone) is how do Hoosiers with say, 7 heat cycles, compare to new Toyos, for example.

FWIW- The first two races I ran this year were on SO3's that I used at the ARRC last year. Did I store them in a nice warm cushy basement wrapped in blankets over the winter? NO! They stayed on the car, on the trailer outside suffering from all the elements. Were they slower than they were last year? Yes, but only by a half a second or so. I only got beat by dudes on brandy new RSO4's. The last race this past weekend was my first experience with the RSO4's and WOW! They were fantastic. I'll let you all know later in the year when they slow down to a "new" Toyo speed. Don't hold your breath. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif
Ray

gran racing
06-22-2004, 09:11 AM
Ray,
You really notice that much of a difference versus Toyos at LRP? Silly question, but have you used Toyos?

------------------
Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

bldn10
06-22-2004, 11:42 AM
For comparison purposes, I ran the news Hoosiers on a 2nd Gen. ITS RX-7 but your results may vary. They were just beginning to get a little loose toward the end of the 6th session but I assumed it was just the track (and it may have been, at least partially) so I had no resrvations starting my next event on them, especially since the Hoosier man was talking about people getting 10 sessions out of them. I was shocked at the lack of grip in the 7th session - twitchy under hard braking and unable to power out of turns. That said, the next day I put on a new set and was only about a second quicker, but I was not pressed and they felt much better. My take is that the new Hoosiers after 4 sessions are not as good as new Toyos and after that the gap widens. The Hoosiers are "special occasion" tires. :-)

pfcs
06-22-2004, 12:13 PM
;

pfcs
06-22-2004, 12:24 PM
John Stimm was my first try w/new Hoosiers.
initial impression was very good in qualifying and first third of race. After qualifying, temps were very even and LR temps were almost as high as LF-certainly not an understeering setup. By race's end, understeer/LF tire protest was significant and I was suprised to find that chunking had started along inside edge of outer groove of LF tire. (tires were purchased heat-cycled from Tire Rack)The entire remainder of LF tread had nice fine marbling typical of a happy tire.

Joe Craven
06-22-2004, 12:34 PM
I just ran both the Goodyears and 04 Hoosiers at a recent double regional at Laguna Seca in my 1971 Capri in ITB.

New Hoosiers R3S04 205/60-13
New Goodyear GSCS 205/60-13

Race 1 - R3S04 1:52.722
Race 2 - GSCS 1:52.770

BTW, I've compared 03s with the Goodyears last year and they perform similarly.

My conclusion is that the performance of the Hoosier 03s, 04s and Goodyear GSCS is very similar on my car. From what I'm hearing from others, they seem to last similarly. I wouldn't be surprised to eventually hear that the compound is the same on the 03 and 04 tires. They definitely feel different on the track, 03s are twitchy although I can race on either.

Joe Craven
37 ITB Capri

philstireservice
06-22-2004, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by pfcs:
John Stimm was my first try w/new Hoosiers.
initial impression was very good in qualifying and first third of race. After qualifying, temps were very even and LR temps were almost as high as LF-certainly not an understeering setup. By race's end, understeer/LF tire protest was significant and I was suprised to find that chunking had started along inside edge of outer groove of LF tire. (tires were purchased heat-cycled from Tire Rack)The entire remainder of LF tread had nice fine marbling typical of a happy tire.

Becareful of your setup........any tire will start to chunk if "pushed"


------------------
Phil Phillips Integra GSR #4
www.philstireservice.com
Official Independent Amsoil Dealer for the ECHC
Distributor for FireCharger AFFF fire systems
Hoosier Tire Dealer

gran racing
06-22-2004, 05:39 PM
How much are the New Goodyear GSCS 205/60-13?

I've heard that they last even longer then the new Hoosiers. But that's just a rumor.

------------------
Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

Joe Craven
06-22-2004, 07:29 PM
RS304 205/60-13 ~$145
GSCS 205/60-13 ~$170

I'll report on life after I run both sets through some cycles. I have 4 cycles on the '04s (think I noticed a drop on the 4th cycle) and 3 cycles on the GSCS tires so far.

timo944
06-22-2004, 10:46 PM
I've had two sets of the S04's on my 944: one on 7" wheels and one on 8" wheels (for PCA), all 225/45/15.

The set on 7" wheels is surviving well, although I did cord the inside of the RF pretty quickly, about 4 sessions.

The set on the 8" wheels got killed after 2 qualifying sessions, a 35 minute sprint, and a 90 minute enduro (1st place!). The annoying part is that EVERY tire was perfect in the middle, but corded on either the inside or outside edge. I have never had problems like this before. Pressures are 45 psi hot, as recommended.

I plan to go to Hoosier with this but I guess that the S04's are more sensitive to camber settings than the S03's. Time to get a new battery for that Pyrometer.

Timo

moto62
06-23-2004, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by gran racing:
Ray, Silly question, but have you used Toyos?

Yup. Back in the days when I didn't think a tire would make a difference, I would run the Toyo's till they were done. Takes about two years to do that http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif
Ray

JeffYoung
06-23-2004, 01:57 AM
New driver, but ran a full season on Toyos. Switched to R3SO4s, and was 2 seconds a lap faster at VIR. But, killed the tires in about 7 heat cycles (three Qs, four races). Last race, they were a-sliding, and I corded the outside of the fronts.

So, will probably go back to Toyos for another year.

Nigel Stu
06-24-2004, 06:22 PM
Just to add to the mix...

Has anyone tried the Hankook Z211s yet?

How do they compare to the Hoosiers, Toyos, various Kumhos?

Anyone have rain experience with these tires in full tread?

emwavey
06-29-2004, 08:22 AM
To further add to the mix, has anyone tested the new Avons yet?

------------------
-dave
8)
Got Photos?... post 'em here: http://y3k.shacknet.nu:31338/gallery/

JIgou
06-29-2004, 10:00 AM
Word from the Pro Spec Miata folks (keep in mind the word "Pro") about the Hankooks is that the best way to go fast on them is a new shaved set every weekend.

When he can pick which brand he runs on, Niki Coello (last year's Pro SM champ) picks Toyos over Hankooks.

From non-pro drivers who are friends and tried the Hankooks, the summary is that they can go fast, but don't communicate very well. You realize you're beyond their grip when you're suddenly looking at where you just came from.

One of those guys switched to Toyos and is much happier; the other I expect to see on Toyos at our next event.

I've run on the Hankooks a couple of times, didn't like them compared to my Toyos - had the same communication issues mentioned above, turned similar time to Toyos....but, at the same time I couldn't go any faster on Hoosiers in my SM either, so maybe it's just the driver. (All three tried at the same track, same day.)

FWIW.

Jarrod

Eagle7
06-29-2004, 10:26 PM
Last year I was a newby on Khumo Victoracers. This year I'm a rookie on R3S04's. Just got back from Gingerman. Started the school Saturday on tires with about 14 cycles on them, so probably 22 cycles at the end of the day, with one corded pretty bad. About 1 second faster than the Khumos. I'm pretty sure I'm faster, and so the tires might have been slower.

Put fresh tires on Sunday morning and ran 3 seconds faster than Saturday.

------------------
Marty Doane
ITS RX-7 #13
CenDiv WMR

wpspeedracer
07-22-2004, 07:59 AM
Guess I'll jump in here. I just did a Kuhmo / Michelin ? Hoosier comparison since I had three sets to compare over three race weekends. First was the Kuhmo to Michelin at Daytona and Moroso.. The sessions were about an hour apart over two days so track temps were close. I was about 1-2 seconds faster with the Michelins and there is no comparison when it comes to wear...the michelins keep on going. Also, the Kuhmo's always go away for awhile then come back while the Michelins are constant.
Then, up at Barber, I compared the Michelins vs the Hoosiers. I gave myself one full test day on the Michelins to get used to the track, then on Saturday, practiced and qualifed on the Michelins, the for the race I slapped on the Hoosiers. The first couple of laps were like someone put glue on my tires, instant improvement...2 seconds. On Sunday, I praticed on the Michelins with the same time an improvement of about a second from the day before....getting to know the track better. Then 45 minutes later, qualified with the Hoosiers...no comparison..another 2 second improvement. Sunday was a 1 1/2 hour enduro and they were solid the entire race and there's still plenty of tread left for the upcoming SAARC at Sebring in Aug......I'm hooked, and I gave away the Kuhmo's

924Guy
07-22-2004, 08:36 AM
wp - what kind of car and what level of prep??? Thanks for the comparison!

------------------
Vaughan Scott
Detroit Region #280052
'79 924 #77 ITA/GTS1
www.vaughanscott.com

bldn10
07-22-2004, 10:29 AM
My second set of 04's have been much better than the first. I have put the equivalent of at least 10 sessions on them and they still have more grip than the first set did after 6 sessions! The difference? All I can think of is that the first set I called myself properly heat cycling them on a practice day and then not running them for a day and a half, and the second set I scrubbed in during qualifying and raced them a few hours later. This at first seems contrary but I think what happened is that I did not get the first set hot enough before letting them sit up. So, from my experience I say to make sure you run at least a couple of hard laps during the scub session and then let them rest.
FWIW I could not pass up the great Hoosier sale and bought 8 03's for $107 each. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

wpspeedracer
07-22-2004, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by 924Guy:
wp - what kind of car and what level of prep??? Thanks for the comparison!



944 S ITS 87'
Barber...1:51 Michelin's
1:49 Hoosiers

mark

zracer22
07-22-2004, 02:56 PM
Mark,

Consider this an invitation to race with GTS Challenge at Road Atlanta on Aug 14-15. Depending on your weight/power ratio, you will either be in GTS2 or GTS3. www.gtschallenge.com (http://www.gtschallenge.com)

Mark Barr
GTS Challenge Director
[email protected]

ITSRX7
08-09-2004, 09:30 AM
Only one mention of Goodyears. Our testing has the Goodyear still on par with the 04's. Team car just set a track record on GY's.

So, if I could have any tire? Goodyear all the way. They don't go off like the Hoosier and are much less prone to flatspotting. Notice the cars that have gone faster on the Hoosiers - mostly FWD cars. The heavier RWD cars tend to love the GY's.

HOWEVER - currently the support from GY is slipping. They are slipping in their focus. Hoosier is - and has always been committed to the little guy.

(EDIT) I am talking about the best you can get - Hoosier and Goodyear. Kumho, Toyo and Hankook are great tires but do not provide the ultimate grip.

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[This message has been edited by ITSRX7 (edited August 09, 2004).]

Greg Amy
08-09-2004, 09:49 AM
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...Our testing has the Goodyear still on par with the 04's...</font>[/b]

Goodyears are probably the ONLY reason I'd consider going to 15" wheels (if ever allowed...)

Eagle7
08-09-2004, 09:27 PM
Andy,

I know nothing about Goodyears - ran Khumo last year and Hoosier R3S04 this year. Which tire are you refering to, where can I research it, and how much does it cost?

Thanks,

------------------
Marty Doane
ITS RX-7 #13
CenDiv WMR

Quickshoe
08-10-2004, 01:33 AM
My apologies Andy for butting in, especially if you are speaking of some other Goodyear, just trying to give Marty a head start on his research.

The tires are Eagle GSSC's.

Not sure where you can get them near you and all the available sizes and prices. A google search came up with:

http://www.bobwoodmantires.com/goodyear/gy...gyeaglegscs.htm (http://www.bobwoodmantires.com/goodyear/gyeaglegscs.htm)

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Daryl DeArman

ITSRX7
08-10-2004, 07:43 AM
No problem Daryl!

You are correct. The Eagle GSCS. It's their DOT racing radial. You see them on all the T1, T2 and As cars at the runoffs. We run the 225/50/15 on our RX-7's and feel they are the best tire for the car, money no object.

Cost is the same as a Hoosier with better life IMHO. BUT: Currently, GY is out of them and they are not at the top of their production list.

Here is the corp info on the tire:
http://www.racegoodyear.com/products/racect32.html

And here is who to call to get pricing and availability:
http://www.racegoodyear.com/distributors.html

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

Eagle7
08-10-2004, 08:59 PM
Thank you both very much.

Observations from the spec sheet:
* With a 23.6" dia (vs 22.8) I can't consider it until my rear end grows a little (still got the stock gear).
* Section width should fit without a problem. Maybe I can even drop the spacer.
* Slightly cheaper than Hoosiers.

John Herman just set a track record with them. Maybe I'll try them next year.

Thanks,

------------------
Marty Doane
ITS RX-7 #13
CenDiv WMR

Knestis
08-11-2004, 11:18 AM
I'm probably being an Earthling and stating the obvious but any head-to-head comparison without optimizing set-up for both tires could go go either way.

I saw a complaint on another board that the new Hosers (eh?) were wearing on the inside edge but it sounded like he had just stuck with the "recommended camber" from last year's tire.

K

jwsbmw325
08-12-2004, 01:14 PM
new Hoosier vs Goodyear GSCS -
Since none of us who were running Goodyear GSCS 225/50/15 can get any more - we've been forced onto the Hoosier 04's. Ran the first set this weekend. Initially, they seemed to have very crisp turn in, less prone to lock up, but seemed a little twitchy mid corner, but seemed to have nice grip at exit, even though the car seemed to do some weird things. But the care seemed to react well once you realized you had crossed the limit and backed it off a bit. (ITS BMW 325). But I doid not qualify well, though the other car on our team did.
My tires looked very raggedy on the edges of the LF tire, and I kept rotating the ties around. Best race time was 1.01.77, vs 1.03.25 Qual. The race time was as good as I have run on the Goodyear, having said that, the tires went away fast and I went off, then got t-boned in a mid-pack melee. Upon further investigation, I realized the Tire Rack had sent me a set of the "A"'s - the AUTOCROSS tire. I was not aware that Hoosier made this tire for both applications. Not sure what the tire rack will do - but just a word of caution when ordering from them - Make sure you get the right tire!!! Looks like I may be out about $1 grand for the rubber and about $5G's to fix the damage....Maybe they'll make a good one lap qualifying tire?? FYI the other guy on the team ended up winning the race, his time right on top of the Goodyear time, and they seem to be fairly qual - time will tell. Wish me luck in my attempt to get some compensation from the TireRack - so far they seem pretty cool.....

lateapex911
09-24-2004, 02:32 PM
Ouch!

I have always wondered if the A compound would make a good Q tire, but it appears it is a 1 or 2 lap version of the race tire. Fast right away, but fades, vs the R tire which needs a lap or 2 then holds. Little difference in ultimate speed if I read this right.

OK, now that we have almost an entire season on these, what is the, (Assuming there IS one!) consensus on the new Hoosier 04s life cycle. How many cycles are you guys running? Reading back I see things like 3 cycles to 12 cycles! (I am still on my first set, its been about a dozen cycles) Seems like most of you think 7 is tha magic number, but as I recall, that was the same number for the 03s!

If that is the case, that is bad news, because the only difference is more $! (The speed issue is irrelevant, as the old Hoosiers were the fst tire anyway, except for the Goodyears, which don't fit a lot of peoples cars or budgets)

I am trying to figure out my tire "budget" for the rest of the season...

I wish they were like Toyos and got faster after 20 cycles!

sigh.........

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited September 24, 2004).]

joeg
09-24-2004, 03:03 PM
Jake--To be honest, I preferred the old Hoosier. They were lighter and I could judge wear better.

Speed wise, the old ones felt a bit "quicker", but are probably as fast as the new ones.

I think it may have been a marketing gimic to keep up with the new Kumho entry (which Kumho failed miserably).

Oh well.

ulfelder
09-24-2004, 03:06 PM
Jake, I polished off a set of Hoosiers at the most recent NHIS double, and - ta da! - they lasted exactly 7 heat cycles. And when they went away, they went away completely, all at once - now you stick, now you don't.

Steve U
Flatout Motorsports
05 ITS
New England Region

apr67
09-24-2004, 03:13 PM
I belive the new hoosier had to be created to compy with the new DOT tire rules that hoosier was not able to get changed.

That's my guess.

TimM ITB
09-24-2004, 07:23 PM
My experience has been same as Steve U's. The new Hoosiers feel faster than the 03's, and the times seem to indicate that they are slightly faster (at least in my run group - ITB). But when these Hoosiers hit my 3rd race - 6 complete heat cycles, plus an initial heat cycle for "better life" - they went away COMPLETELY. Turn 3 at NHIS became a nightmare (I eventually did some "off roading" entering the uphill area) and I think cars behind me entering Turn 9 must have thought that I was hitting the brakes I had to lift so badly in order to not have more "off roading". So, 7 is MY limit for sure. Now I have a FWD car, and that probably makes the life expectancy much worse. My tire management "strategy" (now there's are real oxymoron!!) is to run the new tires on the front for 2 to 3 weekends, then move them to the rear. This also gets my car to turn better, or at least, it did with the old Hoosiers. With many of the other issues that I have had in developing this A3 Golf this year, it's been tough to tell if this is actually doing me any good - or if the tires are really junk after 7 heat cycles.

If anyone has had success with greater than 7 heat cycles, was it on FWD or RWD?? Are you doing something other than following the general guidlelines found in the Hoosier brochure?? (pressures vs. weight; break in period,etc?) If you have run them for as much as 12 heat cycles, have you been able to maintain good times/speeds even toward the end of their life??

Later,

Tim M

TimM ITB
09-24-2004, 07:25 PM
My experience has been same as Steve U's. The new Hoosiers feel faster than the 03's, and the times seem to indicate that they are slightly faster (at least in my run group - ITB). But when these Hoosiers hit my 3rd race - 6 complete heat cycles, plus an initial heat cycle for "better life" - they went away COMPLETELY. Turn 3 at NHIS became a nightmare (I eventually did some "off roading" entering the uphill area) and I think cars behind me entering Turn 9 must have thought that I was hitting the brakes I had to lift so badly in order to not have more "off roading". So, 7 is MY limit for sure. Now I have a FWD car, and that probably makes the life expectancy much worse. My tire management "strategy" (now there's are real oxymoron!!) is to run the new tires on the front for 2 to 3 weekends, then move them to the rear. This also gets my car to turn better, or at least, it did with the old Hoosiers. With many of the other issues that I have had in developing this A3 Golf this year, it's been tough to tell if this is actually doing me any good - or if the tires are really junk after 7 heat cycles.

If anyone has had success with greater than 7 heat cycles, was it on FWD or RWD?? Are you doing something other than following the general guidlelines found in the Hoosier brochure?? (pressures vs. weight; break in period,etc?) If you have run them for as much as 12 heat cycles, have you been able to maintain good times/speeds even toward the end of their life??

Later,

Tim M

spnkzss
09-27-2004, 08:53 AM
04s, FWD, 205/60R13, ITC, 12 heat cylces and planning to run MARRS 9 on them.

My times have continuued to drop all year long. The grip does begin to go away, but I'm still able to go into turn 5 at Summit Point 3 wide and win.

I'm sure I could be a bit faster if I bought a new set, but when I first started racing I ran on 3 year old BFGs, so these are still quite a bit better.

I do however rotate front to rear every 4 or 5 sessions.

HTH

mlytle
09-27-2004, 12:28 PM
its bmw 352is - my personal best time at summit point was on heat cycle 15 on a set of 04's. have not been able to beat that yet on a new set..