oil change frequency

[88YB1]

So as to not hijack the oil thread I started this one. How often do you change the oil in your IT car, and what is your reason for that schedule? Is this based on oil analisis, history, ect.

Chuck

[apr67]

I used to go about a season on either redline (preferred) or Mobil 1. After the last race of the season I would change to oil to a regular dino for storage, since redline race oils are not desgined for storage.

Reason? I figure the oil is good for atleast 24 hours/1500 miles. I think the redline guy even said something like that at a show once.

Alan

[joeg]

Each race weekend--overkill, but the motors (when torn down) are nice and clean.

[Dick Elliott]

When using free oil, every race. When paying fo it, once a year, but look in the Oberg Filter every race.What your bearings look like at the end of the year should tell you when to change.

[Greg Amy]

When using free oil, every race. When paying for it, every race.

I mean, how much money are we talking about here? 5 quarts of Mobil 1 at $4/qt max = $20 per race. Hell, I spend that much for Lime Rock Park Burgers each weekend...

[Dick Elliott]

I guess it comes down to the fact, that some of us racers are just cheap. I take my own food to the track (doesn't everbody????), I use hand me down tires from the rich, plugs last a year atleast, filters are used over on the tow car, I sleep in the back of the truck at the track, all of this is done so I can race a few times a year and not have to hock my first born to pay for this.I've been racing since 1952, and at an extra $20.00 a race I could have built another car along the way. You change your oil every week and when I blow past I'll feel that much better.Hope that was a good burger, mine were.



Originally posted by grega:
When using free oil, every race. When paying for it, every race.

I mean, how much money are we talking about here? 5 quarts of Mobil 1 at $4/qt max = $20 per race. Hell, I spend that much for Lime Rock Park Burgers each weekend...

[Quickshoe]

I also change oil and filter every race. Because it was cheap insurance. It may not be needed, but it certainly won't hurt.

I am "frugal": stay at the track, not hotels. Bring my own food, used Kumhos not Hoosiers, etc. Because I am this frugal I am not willing to try to save $20 on an oil change that may cost me problem$ down the road.

I also felt that as long as temps are kept under control that clean/fresh dino oil is just as good, if not better than older dirty, contaminated synthetic.

Now if the stuff was staying in there all season, I wouldn't utilize anything but synthetic.

[MMiskoe]

As long as the temps stay in a sane range, once or twice a season has always been plenty for me. If it gets overheated the oil will turn darker color, then its time to change it. If its hard to read on the stick because it blends in, its ok (for me).

I have heard some things about synthetic giving problems because it has a much higher lubricity. Here's the scenario - hot car comes into the pit idles for 30 seconds then roars on out. While its idleing, low pressure, the bearings bottom out and get damaged. A lap later is when the damage is apparent because its now under load. This was coming from a Busch North guy and they do run slightly different motors than we (typically) do. Probably bigger clearances and bigger power.

Just a comment from someone who worked in the engine shop.

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...and when I blow past I'll feel that much better...</font>

Uuhh, in an ITB Ford Pinto...? Exploding past, maybe, but "blowing"...?

http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by grega:
Uuhh, in an ITB Ford Pinto...? Exploding past, maybe, but "blowing"...?

http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)



Veeeeeeeeery funny Greg...tch tch thch!

Actually, Dick is the guy to watch when it comes to make the wet/dry decision, as I think he's in the weather prediction game, so, there are scenarios where he might just blow by you!

(As to the $20, I would MUCH rather spend my 20 at Lime Rock as their food is sooooo much better than most other tracks, and while it doesn't go far, it's a bettr value than say, Shea Stadium! I give you credit Dick, for bringing your own....it's all I can do to get the car to the track, much less luxuries like food!)



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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[gran racing]

I definately feel that changing the oil after every race is total overkill. But if it makes you feel better, I guess go for it. But it is more of a mental thing.

I use a bit heavier weight oil and so far have great experience with the twice a year oil change. Depending on circumstances, I might go crazy and change it three times a year. The engine has done very, very well with this oil change interval and has accumulated many, many miles on it without ever being rebuilt, ect. Guess it can't be too bad now can it?

Just out of curosity, how do the 24 hours of Lemans racers and pit crew change their oil during the race? I believe they have a schedule to make an oil change stop every hours. Oh, how many hours do you think you are racing your car on a typical weekend? (I'm feeling Greg smack me on the back of the head now...) Obviously I'm just making a point, but think of all of those very long enduros being run.

Why do you change it after every race? Is it a mental thing and just makes you feel better? Or do you really think that it should be done and truely adds a benefit?

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Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

[ITSRX7]

Originally posted by gran racing:


Why do you change it after every race? Is it a mental thing and just makes you feel better? Or do you really think that it should be done and truely adds a benefit?



I don't think it adds anything. I think it PREVENTS any issues by being safe. Think about the bill you would have if you lost your motor. (Assuming a built-high dollar motor).

Ultra small price to pay for the protection and piece of mind.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com)

[joeg]

Why do you change it after every race? Is it a mental thing and just makes you feel better? Or do you really think that it should be done and truely adds a benefit?

It's both a mental thing as well as it forces me under the car to check things out. Loose bols, rubbing, etc. as well as oil leaks.

Cheers.

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Why do you change it after every race?</font>

Oil has multiple jobs in an engine:

- Lubrication, to reduce friction between sliding parts
- Hydraulics, to keep rotating parts separated by hydraulic pressure (rod/main bearings)
- Cleaning, to collect and transfer impurities to the filtering system, and to disperse impurities and keep them in suspension until the fluid can be changed
- Cooling, to collect heat and disperse it to the radiators

Oils are designed with specific uses in mind: street, race, low-use, etc. Ferrari, for instance, has Shell (?) design and refine for them oil specifically for their application. We, on the other hand, (well, at least I) don't have the attention of Shell so we have to use an off-the-shelf oil, one designed for the masses and brewed and compromised for a multitude of applications. The chemistry of these retail oils has to take into account uses ranging from your Dad's Oldsmobile that gets driven once every weekend and our 9,000 RPM rotary rockets.

The problem is that as we use the oil, we are constantly affecting its chemistry. As soon as you pour the oil in, it's changing. Its viscosity changes from what it was in the lab, its dispersant and cooling capabilites are changing. Even worse, the process of combustion is adding to the oil hydrocarbons, water, solids, and acids which are quickly breaking down the oil.

For a typical street car that never sees more than 70 mph, never overheats, and gets driven daily in order to burn off the water and some impurities, 3000-7500 mile oil changes are perfectly fine. I have absolutely no problem changing the Mobil 1 in my daily-driver Audi S4 every 5000 miles; I know that the car is treated within a certain parameter of temperatures and pressures and I'm confident that I'm well within the 95-percentile of use that the chemists intended.

However, when I toss that same oil into my street-based race engine, I become concerned. That engine spends the large majority of its life at the top 25% of its RPM range, the temperatures are almost constantly elevated well above what is considered "normal", and the pressures it experiences are always at extremes. I run a fuel that the chemists likely never considered. I drive with others that are dropping wheels off the track, kicking up dirt and dust. Even worse, the engine gets used once, maybe twice, every month, allowing collected solids, hydrocarbons, acids, and water to sit in there unused and undispersed for potentially weeks at a time.

Part of our standard post-race maintenance is to change the oil and filter as soon as practicable to clean out all this stuff and be ready for the next race. It doesn't improve horsepower, it doesn't "insure" anything, but it assures me that I'm using a lubricant that is working at peak designed performance, and I'm confident that it goes a long way to increasing engine longevity.

And at $20 a race, why not? What are you gaining by not changing the oil, other than $20? "If it makes you feel better, I guess go for it."


<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...how do the 24 hours of Lemans racers and pit crew change their oil during the race?</font>

Of course they don't, Dave, because the rules don't allow it, it would be a poor competitive move, and because they engineer the engine to last the distance. However, one thing they do have is someone providing to them a brandy-new $six-figure race engine every race.

Do you?

Greg

[RSTPerformance]

I change my oil every year or maybe 1 time half way through, no schedule... We just use basic Castrol oil from any Autozone (plug for ray ray). No synthetics so less than $2.00 a quart. Why do we do this? because we have a $500 stock rebuilt Audi motor. Our street cars have gone through more pain when it snows than our race cars ever did and they have always been fine. If we had the $$$ for a "built engine" then we would be sure to have the $$$ for the oil every race and would change it.

In our dads AS we change the oil after ever race. At $5,000-$10,000 you need to inspect that stuff all the time, no reason for any shortcuts. A new engine costs twice what it does to do a rebuild.

Raymond Blethe
www.rstperformance.com (http://www.rstperformance.com) (Last updated 3/15/04)

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RST Performance Racing
www.rstperformance.com (http://www.rstperformance.com)
1st and 2nd 2003 ITB NARRC Championship
1st and 6th 2003 ITB NERRC Championship
3rd 2003 ITB ARRC Sprint Race
4th 2003 ITB ARRC Endoro
1st 2003 AS NERRC and NARRC Championships

[Jake]

At a risk of hijacking THIS thread, how about Synthetic vs. non-Synthetic?

I am one of the cheap racers here, so any additional $ means less racing for me or less food for the baby. I've been using the cheap 10-30 oil from Walmart ($5/5Q) and changing it every other race. But in my latest brain-fart, would I be better off with Mobil 1 and only changing it one or twice a year for the same $ ? The fact that this is less work for me already makes this idea seem pretty good!

[gran racing]

You change it after every race Jake? Come on now, how often do you really change it?

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Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

[Bill Miller]

When I was running dino oil, I changed it and the filter (MANN) every weekend. Since I switched to synthetic (Redline) and an Accusump system, I change it every season. I run a Canton replaceable cartridge filter, but may also add an Oberg panel filter, as they're easier to check.

Since we're on the subject of oil, noone has mentioned cutting open the filter and examining it. Thoughts?

Also, thoughts on oil weight? In my old ITA MR2, I ran B-G 0W30 synthetic. When I ran dino oil, I ran Castrol GTX 20W50. Since switching to Redline, it's been 15W50. I was talking to an engine builder, and he said that the 15W50 was too 'thick', and that I should go to a lower viscosity oil. Thoughts?

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Jake]

Lower viscocity oil will help you squeeze out a few more ponies.

[SubieSethie]

I don't know if this is okay or not, but here is what a bunch of us subie guys came up with. Good information with the facts to back it.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread...threadid=375446 (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=375446)

Later,
Seth E.

[gran racing]

Maybe I should change the oil I've been using (20W 50)? Thought that would be better for the engine, but after reading all of this I could be wrong.

Would 10W 30 or 40 be better for the engine?

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Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

[Pinto42]

I change oil once a year, using redline 10/40. The motor after 4 seasons/11 races a season, was very clean and the bearings showed almost no wear.

Barry

[OTLimit]

No wonder some of you can't afford to race more. You're too busy spending money on oil. Chris' last IT motor had over 100 race days on it (and that is a conservative guess), and he changes it when he thinks about it. But I will say that he checks the Oberg on both cars religiously.



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Lesley Albin
Over The Limit Racing
Blazen Golden Retrievers

[cherokee]

I am kinda with Leslie on this, I change mine when I think about it. It is after all an IT engine, more or less stock. I bet the temps are cooler on my IT car then in my drive to work stuck in bumper to bumper traffic, A/C running,moving 3 feet every 15 minutes 108 outside, in fact I know that the water temps are cooler on the race car. I would bet my oil temps are hotter in the street car also.

If it is good enough for that yellow flash that blows by me 2 times a race it is good enough for me http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

[Speed Raycer]

Originally posted by cherokee:
If it is good enough for that yellow flash that blows by me 2 times a race it is good enough for me http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

LOL.. aint that the truth!

I'm going to count how many times Chris passes me this weekend in the turn 3 complex.

{edit} On second thought... I'd better be concentrating on the line in the 3's.... I'll have to get some open wheel guys to count for me http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif {/edit}

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Scott
It's not what you build...
it's how you build it
http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/rudder_racing/images/RX7_Pictures/SRsRX/sig58.jpg (http://www.izzyscustomcages.com) http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/rudder_racing/images/IzzysImgs/IzzysLogoDSsmall.jpg (http://www.izzyscustomcages.com)

[This message has been edited by Speed Raycer (edited March 23, 2004).]

[cherokee]

I don't want to count http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif I would have to take off my shoes to count that high http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif